Do You Give To Beggars?

[Era Might]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='17 May 2010 - 10:22 PM' timestamp='1274149372' post='2112416']
My daughter when she worked in Pittsburgh knew all the beggers by sight. She handed out food, but attached info about the local homeless shelter and job applications as well.
[/quote]
Homeless shelters are created to solve a social problem. The Gospel is not about solving social problems. The Gospel invites us to welcome the stranger into our own homes, not to pass them off to an institutional homeless shelter.

Now, I am not against addressing poverty as a social problem. But I am against confusing the Gospel with social programs. The Gospel is about personal relationships, not about social programs.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Era Might

[Hassan]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='17 May 2010 - 09:58 PM' timestamp='1274147902' post='2112408']
Christ called us to be loving, not naive and stupid. Besides, a shelter may be able to help them out a lot more than throwing a buck at them.

You want to know something? It's more of a sacrifice for me to go take 5 minutes and risk missing my train to actually take a homeless person into a food place and buy him a sandwich. But I guess that doesn't fit into naive 15-second soundbite or 1960s hippie Christianity.

Besides, the Didache did say something about knowing where your charity is going.
[/quote]

This is very true.

Only very rarely will I give someone asking for it cash. I've helped/half carried a homeless man who threw his hip dash across the street so I could but him a meal and listen to his life story, but I didn't give him a dine. Why? Because he threw his hip and had to be half carried across the street by me to avoid getting run over because his was drunk as a skunk.

One it was snowing in Chapel Hill, a rare event. A man with an African accent was frantically begging everyone who would listen for four dollars so he could make take the bus to Raleigh to get to his wife before everything shut down due to snow. People were largely just snubbing him. They didn't want to be distracted from the beautiful scenery brought by the snow. He cried out is desperation that please why wouldn't anyone help him. He just needed help getting to the city. Please help him before the snow trapped him. I gave him the lat four dollars I had and would never regret it because I am about positive he was telling the truth. He was different from the professional panhandlers. He was indignant, emotionally raw, distressed by rejection and disbelief. He clearly hadn't developed the thick emotional callous that so many of them have that allows them to tell some crackpot story to a 12 years old kid and take the last of his allowance money to buy a 40.

But he was the exception. I hate it that he had to go through so much indignity when he was, in my opinion, truly a responsible man down on his luck who was willing to publicly sacrifice his dignity to do right by his family, but in 99/100 cases those people who refused to give him money would have been right (they weren't right to ignore him though).

Most homeless that I wouldn't give cash too then fall into two general categories. There are those who have no initiative to every make something of themselves. They don't want help (real help). They don't really want to get out of their situation. Buying them a meal won't do anything either because it will just let them put more of the money they are given to booze/drugs/prostitutes whatever. For people like this, if no other option is available I just part with my money and buy them a meal, but usually I just ignore them if I know that they know about the general programs but just don't feel like walking down the street to the shelter.

But most homeless aren't that hardened. I still wouldn't give them money because I'm just enabling their vice. But the greatest thing you can do is buy them a meal and let them talk to you. Just talk to them, shake their hand. Even if they reek of alcohol just do what you can to remind them that they are human, that there is a world off the streets, and that people will give them a break if they just try.

Sometimes it's rough. I remember this drunk homeless man tried to talk to me. I was distracted and was just going to brush him off.

"hey mannn..I talked to you earlier"
"nope, sorry. Someone else"
"no, come on man"

I stopped with every intent to just brush him off and get going. He opened up to me (though rambling from being so drunk). He had worked a all his life, had put his kids through college, and then got left by his wife after she had an affair. He didn't say it but it seemed that he his alcohol problem caused him to lose his job and house. He just talked about his life, what it was like being 50 years old, heading towards the end and to be where he was with no hope of a better future. What it was like begging college kids for a few dollars to buy a piece of pizza to eat. How much it hurt him to know the pain his children were going through with this happening in their family. He started to cry. I began to say, "I'm sorry I don't have any cash (true)" because he mentioned that he wanted to leave the city but he cut me off and really looked hurt, "man, I don't want your money". I then tried to get him to let me buy him a decent meal. He didn't want that either. He wanted to go off in the bushes so all the drunk kids around would see him cry. He just wanted to salvage the last of his dignity.

I'll really never forget that because it was the clearest example of a good and decent man ensnared by his vices and unable to pull himself out of the destructive cycle he was headed towards. But if I saw him again (he wouldn't remember me as drunk as he was) I wouldn't give him cash. He has a serious alcohol problem and he is begging in part so he can try to wash away his very real troubles with liquor.

Sometimes you have to be tough to show mercy and kindness. I wouldn't give him a dime because I know he was telling the truth and deep down is a good man who got dealt a shitty hand and tied to deal with it through destructive means (drinking) and now can't see a way out of the nightmare he is in. Giving him cash an no real help is just going to get him further into the hole. If he asked me to help him get a job I would in a heartbeat. I'd do whatever I could to help him find a sustainable way of getting out of the hole he is in. But giving him cash to buy malt liquor with is not doing him any favors. It's just a quick and selfish way to make yourself feel better about reality while enabling a person as he destroys himself.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='17 May 2010 - 10:28 PM' timestamp='1274149720' post='2112419']
Yeah, well, maybe the "institution" I am "passing them off to" can do a better job of helping them than me. And at the end of the day, isn't getting the job done the important thing?
[/quote]
As far as the Gospel is concerned, no, I do not believe that "getting the job done" is the important thing.

You are making my point. Charity becomes about rendering "professional services." Ordinary people thus become incompetent to even practice charity. We believe that only professionals in an institution can do that competently. Thus, people begin to live through institutions, referring every problem to these institutions.

The job of an institution is to "get things done." The vocation of the Gospel is about responding to an opportunity for personal relationship. What's the point of relationship if "getting the job done" is the important thing? In that case, we never even have to worry about the beggar as a person...all we have to do is worry about institutions "getting the job done."

Edited May 18, 2010 by Era Might

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='17 May 2010 - 09:28 PM' timestamp='1274149720' post='2112419']
Yeah, well, maybe the "institution" I am "passing them off to" can do a better job of helping them than me. A[b]nd at the end of the day, isn't getting the job done the important thing?[/b]
[/quote]
Not so much, to be honest. The goal is [the] soul. The goal should be to bring them to Christ and to bring Christ to them, moreso than just getting them off the street. Getting them off the street is a great thing, but it's a secondary goal.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Nihil Obstat

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Era Might' date='17 May 2010 - 11:30 PM' timestamp='1274149852' post='2112420']
Homeless shelters are created to solve a social problem. The Gospel is not about solving social problems. The Gospel invites us to welcome the stranger into our own homes, not to pass them off to an institutional homeless shelter.

Now, I am not against addressing poverty as a social problem. But I am against confusing the Gospel with social programs. The Gospel is about personal relationships, not about social programs.
[/quote]
The food my daughter would share would have been her own supper, and the homeless shelter was probably safer than the neighborhood she lived in. Maybe you think it is safe to take strangers home, but we are to use common sense as well as charity for others.

[Era Might]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='17 May 2010 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1274150989' post='2112440']
The food my daughter would share would have been her own supper, and the homeless shelter was probably safer than the neighborhood she lived in. Maybe you think it is safe to take strangers home, but we are to use common sense as well as charity for others.
[/quote]
No, I do not think that it is safe to take strangers home. It's not safe to be a Christian, period. The Gospel is a risk and a scandal.

We live in an institutionalized society, so referring people to institutions is probably inevitable (to the degree that we are each personally willing to do so). But the more we live through institutions, the more we confuse the Gospel for institutional services.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Era Might

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Era Might' date='17 May 2010 - 09:56 PM' timestamp='1274151362' post='2112448']
No, I do not think that it is safe to take strangers home. It's not safe to be a Christian, period. The Gospel is a risk and a scandal.

We live in an institutionalized society, so referring people to institutions is probably inevitable. But the more we live through institutions, the further removed we become from the Gospel.
[/quote]
It's not an either/or proposition.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Era Might' date='17 May 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1274150384' post='2112427']
As far as the Gospel is concerned, no, I do not believe that "getting the job done" is the important thing.

You are making my point. Charity becomes about rendering "professional services." Ordinary people thus become incompetent to even practice charity. We believe that only professionals in an institution can do that competently. Thus, people begin to live through institutions, referring every problem to these institutions.

The job of an institution is to "get things done." The vocation of the Gospel is about responding to an opportunity for personal relationship. What's the point of relationship if "getting the job done" is the important thing? In that case, we never even have to worry about the beggar as a person...all we have to do is worry about institutions "getting the job done."
[/quote]

Taking 5 minutes out of your time to buy a sandwich or a social worker trying to counsel a person on employment skills IS personal relationship (at least on planet Earth it is).

[Era Might]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='17 May 2010 - 11:10 PM' timestamp='1274152205' post='2112466']
Taking 5 minutes out of your time to buy a sandwich or a social worker trying to counsel a person on employment skills IS personal relationship (at least on planet Earth it is).
[/quote]
I agree on the first. As far as the social worker...I disagree. A social worker is there to "get the job done." They are not there for a relationship, but rather to do their job. A personal relationship may take place despite the job...but whether a personal relationship takes place or not, the person can still do their job.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Era Might

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='17 May 2010 - 10:07 AM' timestamp='1274112465' post='2111896']
Usually if I have the funds, I try giving food of some sort. Along with a Miraculous Medal.

While studying in London, a friend and I would give sandwiches and a bottle of water.

While living in NYC, I usually carried extra granola bars and fruit in my satchel to give out.

Always with a Miraculous Medal.
[/quote]
I have given food to people before too, but sadly a few times the person became irate that I offered food instead of money.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Era Might' date='17 May 2010 - 11:13 PM' timestamp='1274152417' post='2112469']
I agree on the first. As far as the social worker...I disagree. A social worker is there to "get the job done." They are not there for a relationship, but rather to do their job. A personal relationship may take place despite the job...but whether a personal relationship takes place or not, the person can still do their job.
[/quote]

What is your problem with "getting the job done"? Does not the Bible say
"If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and no food for the day, and you say to them, 'Good-bye and good luck! Keep warm and well fed', but do not meet their bodily needs, what good is that?" (James 2:15-16)

[KnightofChrist]

I always pray for a beggar if I see him while I sit in the car. If it is a hot day I will buy him a large ice cold bottle of water. Often I through in a Whopper with coagulated milk and some fries. Sometimes money.

[CatherineM]

I may not give them money, but I also don't ignore them. I look them in the eye. I talk to them, ask them how they are doing, ask them if they'd like a ride to a shelter. I treat them like human beings with respect.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='17 May 2010 - 11:23 PM' timestamp='1274153000' post='2112490']
What is your problem with "getting the job done"? Does not the Bible say
"If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and no food for the day, and you say to them, 'Good-bye and good luck! Keep warm and well fed', but do not meet their bodily needs, what good is that?" (James 2:15-16)
[/quote]
An institutional professional is not in a relationship of "brother or sister." They are in a relationship of professional service.

A father may feed his infant child, and a nursing home attendant may feed an elderly resident. One is a personal relationship, the other is a professional interaction. The father acts out of personal relationship, the nursing home attendant acts out of professional obligation.

St. James assumes that the encounter between a Christian and a poor person is a personal encounter with Christ. Institutions have only clients with problems to be solved; personal relationship is irrelevant to merely "getting the job done."

In an institutionalized society, the personal relationship is eliminated. St. James is speaking of persons, not abstract social problems. For Christians, the homeless and the hungry person needs attention because they are a person in front of you, not because they are a social problem to be solved. They are a real "bodily" person whose presence in front of you is a call for your attention...physical, emotional, and spiritual.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Era Might

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Era Might' date='17 May 2010 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1274153728' post='2112500']
An institutional professional is not in a relationship of "brother or sister." They are in a relationship of professional service.

A father may feed his infant child, and a nursing home attendant may feed an elderly resident. One is a personal relationship, the other is a professional interaction. The father acts out of personal relationship, the nursing home attendant acts out of professional obligation.

St. James assumes that the encounter between a Christian and a poor person is a personal encounter with Christ. Institutions have only clients with problems to be solved; personal relationship is irrelevant to merely "getting the job done."

In an institutionalized society, the personal relationship is eliminated. St. James is speaking of persons, not abstract social problems. For Christians, the homeless and the hungry person needs attention because they are a person in front of you, not because they are a social problem to be solved. They are a real "bodily" person whose presence in front of you is a call for your attention...physical, emotional, and spiritual.
[/quote]

So what? As long as we meet their bodily needs......