the lumberjack Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 JS, before I dare try to answer your post, I want to ask you a seemingly simple question, what book and chapter is that verse from? it is James? because if it is, could you tell me who James was writing to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 27 2004, 10:54 PM'] willguy, because you are called by God to be a Holy example for Him to men...that all might be saved. because Christ said to love your Lord God with all your heart and soul and strength. because a good tree produces good fruit. because we are to be doers of the word, and not just hearers. thats why. --------------- and Jason... just forget it. [/quote] Why do you always forget me? God Bless Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 27 2004, 04:19 PM'] quick reply. did Christ die for all the sins we committed up until we got saved? or did Christ die for ALL sins period? this does not give us license to sin as we please, and if you read your Bible, you'd see that Paul very eloquently points this out...many times. we are to be holy as Christ is holy...does this mean that we are perfect as He is? this is why we repent and ask God for forgivenness...this is why we must walk the righteous walk. this is also why once you are saved, and walk with the Lord, you can fall away, but God will NOT abandon you. God bless. [/quote] Nobody "gets saved" ([i]fait accompli[/i]). We are "being saved" (a work in progress). "And every day the Lord added to their number those who were being saved" [beginning with their baptism], Acts 2:47. And we "will be saved" in the future if we are faithful and persevere to the end (of our lives) Mt 10:22, et al. Once upon a time Charles Templeton, Billy Graham's sidekick, thought he was was "saved." He became famous as Graham's associate. But he later lost his faith and fell away. He died unrepentant. God didn't abandon him, but he -- exercising his own free will -- abandoned God and religion and devoted the remainder of his life writing and teaching against Christianity. OSAS is not true, [i]prima facie[/i]. It cannot withstand a simple test of Logic. JMJ Likos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 as many times as Israel turned its back to God...how many times did He call them back? and when did God abandon them? sometimes it was tough love....very tough love...but He never let them go....no matter how much idolatry they performed, no matter how far they drifted, the Lord always brought them back. fall away...but if you are truly a child of God, He will call you back. kind of like the parable of the seeds and the soil... the good seed will grow and produce fruit... all others died out, or didn't even get planted. if you don't have the right heart when you become saved...were you ever really saved? isn't that what the parable speaks of? the seed of the gospel...our salvation? how our lives produce fruit... you can say someone got saved...but if they "fall away" and die unrepentant, whos to say that they ever REALLY had faith in Christ? no matter the position they held in the world... I'm not gonna lie...I'm still praying on this...but I know that the Lord will not abandon me, because He knows that I love Him and truly want to serve Him. and I live in Christ and live for Christ and I know that I am His servant and son....this why [b]I[/b] defend it. I am assured of my salvation in Christ...I can't speak for you or anyone else. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangel Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 We all have an [b]assurance[/b] of salvation from God, but we are [b]not guaranteed[/b] salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeTeamFamily Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 [quote]because a good tree produces good fruit. because we are to be doers of the word, and not just hearers.[/quote] that sounds kinda like your faith manifests itself in the form of good works no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 first, lanky, don't just take the part that fits and try to twist it. we are called to bear good fruit...when have I ever said we weren't? I said that above all, we need faith...that is what justifies us before God. God only...no others. our works are a show of faith...not something we do to earn "merit" or to erase past sin or to earn any other thing. otherwise, you can do all the good works you want and have it mean nothing. faith is absolutely necessary...above all else. this does not mean we can be lazy...hey...sounds like something else I've said before... Christian= works coming forth from faith Catholic Church= faith and merit coming forth from works ...this is the RCIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeTeamFamily Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 can you show me the thing you read that says "faith and merit coming forth from works"? .......im seriously wondering if i can see it, that wasnt sarcastic or anything im just wondering where you read that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 heretic how many times are you going to post ----- about Catholic Church teaching? It can't be because it hasn't been explained to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 (edited) [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 28 2004, 04:41 PM'] faith is absolutely necessary...above all else. Christian= works coming forth from faith Catholic Church= faith and merit coming forth from works ...this is the RCIA.[/quote] You've got it wrong, LJ. Above all else, we need GRACE. Good works are necessary for salvation, but we are not saved by our good works. Salvation is by GRACE ALONE through faith working in love. Grace ALONE leads us to have faith. Faith leads us to do good works. "You see that a man is justified BY WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE." James 2:24. This verse of Scripture is the stake in the heart of the Protestant doctrine of Sola Fides (Faith Alone). A MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, according to the Good Book. "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, [u]and to keep oneself unstained before the world[/u]." James 1:27. You can't "get saved" once and remain saved forever. You have to to keep yourself sin-free. Do you choose to be a sheep or a goat? Read Mt 25:31-46. Better do some good works before Judgment Day! Ave Cor Mariae, Likos Edited April 29, 2004 by Katholikos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeTeamFamily Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 aahhhh i was totally jsut about to cite that sheep and goat passage!!!....good post likos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justified Saint Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 [quote]JS, before I dare try to answer your post, I want to ask you a seemingly simple question, what book and chapter is that verse from?[/quote] I thought it would be obvious the two verses I referenced where from the book and chapter I quoted from immediately before. Maybe you should read in context. Sorry for any unnecessary confusion though. [quote]it is James? because if it is, could you tell me who James was writing to?[/quote] Please spare me. Maybe he was writing to Christians - just a thought and we all know how that is so rare in the NT. So rare that the only logical thing to do is to simply understand the words to mean something very different from what they are saying. Simply amazing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 28 2004, 05:41 PM'] first, lanky, don't just take the part that fits and try to twist it. we are called to bear good fruit...when have I ever said we weren't? I said that above all, we need faith...that is what justifies us before God. God only...no others. our works are a show of faith...not something we do to earn "merit" or to erase past sin or to earn any other thing. otherwise, you can do all the good works you want and have it mean nothing. faith is absolutely necessary...above all else. this does not mean we can be lazy...hey...sounds like something else I've said before... Christian= works coming forth from faith Catholic Church= faith and merit coming forth from works ...this is the RCIA. [/quote] Your quote LJ contradits Sacred Scripture! BIG TIME! How many times has it been posted for you that faith without works is dead. Read Sacred Scripture as a WHOLE! Don't pick and chose and twist words around yourself! We have given you reverances to look up, but it's like you skip those posts and get mad and talk about something off the wall? In my prayers God Bless Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justified Saint Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 Oh, and no - it wasn't from James in case you didn't catch on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 [quote name='Justified Saint' date='Apr 29 2004, 12:36 AM'] Oh, and no - it wasn't from James in case you didn't catch on. [/quote] Look at the post times Nice timing buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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