Osas

[willguy]

For Ashley, mulls, lumberjack, and the rest of our separated brethren,

Do you believe in once saved, always saved? If so, are you saved? (for those of you that do, there is a follow-up question that will come once you answer).

[mulls]

i've given myself to God.

He's not gonna let me go, despite myself.

[the lumberjack]

word to that...once you have given your life to God, you are His.

even when I fell from my walk with the Lord, He was always calling me back. His Holy Spirit was the still small voice inside me, calling me, never ceasing. I made excuses, I'm not strong enough, I can't do it on my own...I need help. When all I really needed was God.

i would severely question if someone was ever saved if they ended up leaving the church for the life of an atheist, a homosexual (one of my fellow mc's had it happen to one of the fellow emcees in his crew), or whatever else....which I've seen...among other things.

His sheep really do hear His voice...and can not ignore it. Once you take the Lord's hand, you can not let go...if you do...its like K-Mart, you'll eventually end up crying in front of one of the cashiers, who will page your Dad, who will come and SWOOP you up in His arms and take you home. (not the BEST analogy, I know...but just keep reading )

Where He will whoop you and tell you that He loves you.

For though we are saved and in the mercy of God, that does not mean we escape the consequences of our sin.

as I've said before, we are called to endure in the faith, to run the race with endurance, and to fight the good fight...with God's strength, and the faith we have in Him to complete in us what HE has started.

[Justified Saint]

Well, that is the way the doctrine goes at least. The Bible is a different story.

[mulls]

tell me the story.


tell me what God is or isn't capable of.

[Justified Saint]

Where would your story start?

[quote]tell me what God is or isn't capable of. [/quote]

Isn't capable of evil and sin maybe, unless you are calvinist.

[willguy]

So, now my follow-up question:

If you are saved, and cannot lose your salvation, then why not join another denomination or faith? That way, you "have your bases covered" so-to-speak. If the one you join is wrong, it doesn't matter, because you're already saved.

[Hananiah]

[quote name='mulls' date='Apr 14 2004, 08:21 AM'] tell me the story.


tell me what God is or isn't capable of. [/quote]
The issue here is not what God is capable of, but rather how much freedom of will He allows His creatures. According to the Bible, people who are saved are capable of falling away, and God will allow them to do so. Apostasy is not a metaphysical impossibility.

St. Paul tells the Galatians that they have been severed from Christ, and have fallen from grace (Gal 5:4). The fact that they have been severed implies that they were once attached, and the fact that they have fallen from grace implies that they were once under it. Context also indicates that the Galatians had once been in a state of justification (Gal 3:2-3).

St. Paul's letter to the Romans uses similar imagery to the letter to the Galatians. In Romans 11:19-23 he likens being in a state of justification to being part of a tree (the family of God). The Jews were once part of this tree, but were broken off because of unbelief. St. Paul tells his readers that they have been grafted in, but that they too will be cut off if they do not continue in God's kindness.

In 1 Corinthians 9 St. Paul likens one's journey to salvation to a race, with heaven as the prize at the end. He clearly leaves open the possibility that he could be disqualified from the race at any time (1 Cor 9:27) which means he did not believe he was eternally secure.

Jesus repeatedly conditioned salvation on final perseverance (Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13, etc.)

Biblically speaking, OSAS doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[cmotherofpirl]

[url="http://catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=672"]http://catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=672[/url]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=2149&hl=once+saved+always+saved"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...ed+always+saved[/url]


[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=7728"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=7728[/url]

Edited April 14, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[dUSt]

So, if one turns to a life of sin or rejects God [b]after[/b] they've been saved, then that means that they weren't saved to begin with? How does one know that one is really saved then?

[the lumberjack]

I backslid myself...so if you were to have looked at my life RIGHT then, you MIGHT have been able to say that.

but you can't...because I came back, just like the prodigal son.

if you "get saved" and then backslide, and live a life like you said and die in that life unrepentful and cursing God, then yes, we should have pretty good reason to wonder if they were EVER saved...and maybe say that they weren't.

but you can't just judge a person on one part of their life...even if its a large part.

God will always put His calling of love, His calling to return, on all His children that fell away from fellowship with Him...as He did with me. All things work for God for those that love God...AMEN!

God IS faithful.

[mulls]

[quote name='willguy' date='Apr 14 2004, 09:50 AM'] So, now my follow-up question:

If you are saved, and cannot lose your salvation, then why not join another denomination or faith? That way, you "have your bases covered" so-to-speak. If the one you join is wrong, it doesn't matter, because you're already saved. [/quote]
denominations don't matter. i'm not worried about having any "bases covered."


if i thought that way i would go to mass and partake in the sacraments, just to "make sure."


membership to anything doesn't matter.


i belong to God.

[mulls]

[quote name='dUSt' date='Apr 14 2004, 12:32 PM'] So, if one turns to a life of sin or rejects God [b]after[/b] they've been saved, then that means that they weren't saved to begin with? How does one know that one is really saved then? [/quote]
one can't know if somebody else is saved.


we can make an educated guess. we can 'know' by the fruit that one bears. if one belongs to God they will do certain things, like share the Gospel, attend church, read the bible, speak of godly things, avoid sinful things....and on and on.


somebody isn't saved because they do these things, and if they don't do these things that doesn't mean they aren't saved. but this is the most reliable evidence we have.

[dUSt]

[quote name='mulls' date='Apr 14 2004, 11:59 AM'] one can't know if somebody else is saved. . [/quote]
How do I know that [b]I'm[/b] saved?

[God Conquers]

I think this is crazy. So you're either saved/not saved. Regardless of the condition of your soul in relation to God. So if you happen to hang out with the wrong people for a while and commit offenses to God, oops, not saved in the first place.

Listen, our relationships with Christ are just that, a RELATIONSHIP.
It is analogous to a marriage, because, once you accept Christ at baptism and in your heart, you are in an intimate relationship with him.

If you screw up in that relationship, it doesn't end. Just like when you mess up in your marriage, it doesn't end. You just work on it.

The OSAS works, it's like you're constantly divorcing, even annulling your relationship with Christ every time you fall into deep sin.

Even the worst relationships can be salvaged by the grace of God. If Your relationship with God is hanging only by a thread, He can restore it through the sacraments.

But our relatiuonship with Christ, once begun, will NEVER end except is YOU end(ie die) and have ultimately rejected him. He wants us, and will never stop standing at the door and knocking, awaiting our return.