Judaism

[Hassan]

[quote name='eustace scrubb' date='07 May 2010 - 11:59 AM' timestamp='1273247944' post='2106297']
yes, but only ethnically (my matralineage(sp?) is Ashkenazim Jew, mostly Polish... those of us who moved to the US during the pogroms are the only ones left, due to the holocaust (we found out that all of our relatives there died in it)). thank you, though.

Messianic Judaism = Protestant evangelicals who are (usually...) ethnically Jewish and want to hold onto their culture. any traditions they practice are entirely optional (except in the case of... *barf* ..."Jews for Jesus", which is an EXTREMELY pushy group that attempts to evangelize Jews via unethical means. they also claim that you have to follow Judaic law to be a Christian. i think St. Paul had a thing or two to say about that, though...
[/quote]


oh, ok. interesting.

[Hilde]

Gosh,no.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='07 May 2010 - 10:08 AM' timestamp='1273244916' post='2106273']
Biblical Judaism was instituted by God and was a good and holy thing. Rabbinic Judaism, which has abandoned the sacrifice in the Temple among other essentials of Judaism, is not the same religion. Jesus was not a Rabbinic Jew, he was a Biblical Jew. There is a huge difference.
[/quote]

This.

[eustace scrubb]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='07 May 2010 - 08:23 PM' timestamp='1273274634' post='2106510']
This.
[/quote]

yeah, i was going to get into the Talmud a bit and how Kabbalah goes against the Torah, but what aalpha1989 said covered it.

[Resurrexi]

'And first of all, by the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished; then the Law of Christ together with its mysteries, enactments, institutions, and sacred rites was ratified for the whole world in the blood of Jesus Christ. For, while our Divine Savior was preaching in a restricted area - He was not sent but to the sheep that were lost of the House of Israel - the Law and the Gospel were together in force; but on the gibbet of His death Jesus made void the Law with its decrees fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament to the Cross, establishing the New Testament in His blood shed for the whole human race. "To such an extent, then," says St. Leo the Great, speaking of the Cross of our Lord, "was there effected a transfer from the Law to the Gospel, from the Synagogue to the Church, from the many sacrifices to one Victim, that, as Our Lord expired, that mystical veil which shut off the innermost part of the temple and its sacred secret was rent violently from top to bottom."' (Pope Pius XII, [i]Mystici Corporis Christi[/i], 29)

[eustace scrubb]

i didn't read what was said its entirety. Rabbinic Judaism started before the destruction of the Temple. the only reason it wasn't reinstituted in Palestine circa 1917 or 1948 is because the Dome of the Rock sits atop where it once was.

[Anastasia13]

I chose I don't know because I don't fully agree with either yes or know. I think that Judaism started out right, but then modern Judaism has failed to accept certain revealed truths making part of their faith a lie, for example, the way we are saved. Retrospectively, wasn't the blinding from God so that the Gospel could be spread? Hmm...

[Micah]

Thread Resurrection<

Yes. What you (above poster) just said is true, and I think many of the replies argue the same thing. No one discussed Islam though. So for the sake of posterity I wan't to elaborate on its religious condition.

Islam is similar to Judaism. It began in the Meccan region of al jazirat, modern day Arabian peninsula. The Banu Hashim of the Quraysh were extensive traders and no doubt had contact with groups of Christian Jews who had heard the Gospel and settled throughout Southwest asia. There are also indications that Christian monastics had spread so far; sufis were called Mutasawwif, which means wool. At least 200 years earlier, Christian spiritual, monastic types were characterized by the rough wool they wore. Also, simple knowledge of parts of the Gospel indicates some connection.

Then it went sour. We don't know if Muhammad controlled his revelations, if they were products of the epilepsy he suffered (think Julius Caesar), or if they were changed over time to conflict with the Christian Gospel. One thing we know is that he was in fact rather welcoming of Christians at first. Muslims would flee pagan persecution and seek protection with Byzantine and Arab Christians in the North and Ethiopian Christians in the South. But as Muhammad gained power and set up his community in Medina, he grew more critical of the Christian jews and Jews alike. What followed was a full blown war between Muhammad's community, the wealthy elite that opposed him, and the wealthy Christian-jewish families that populated the South.

Thus, Islam also comes from the same Kernel of truth that Christianity does. While I am deeply skeptical of the overtures made by the Holy Father towards Islam, and deeply troubled by the blind hate of many laymen towards Islam, we accept as a whole that they do indeed believe in and worship the Abrahamic God. The same with Judaism. This is a requisite for being Catholic; you can find it in your catechism.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Micah

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Micah' timestamp='1292950287' post='2193800']
Thread Resurrection<

Yes. What you (above poster) just said is true, and I think many of the replies argue the same thing. No one discussed Islam though. So for the sake of posterity I wan't to elaborate on its religious condition.

Islam is similar to Judaism. It began in the Meccan region of al jazirat, modern day Arabian peninsula. The Banu Hashim of the Quraysh were extensive traders and no doubt had contact with groups of Christian Jews who had heard the Gospel and settled throughout Southwest asia. There are also indications that Christian monastics had spread so far; sufis were called Mutasawwif, which means wool. At least 200 years earlier, Christian spiritual, monastic types were characterized by the rough wool they wore. Also, simple knowledge of parts of the Gospel indicates some connection.

Then it went sour. We don't know if Muhammad controlled his revelations, if they were products of the epilepsy he suffered (think Julius Caesar), or if they were changed over time to conflict with the Christian Gospel. One thing we know is that he was in fact rather welcoming of Christians at first. Muslims would flee pagan persecution and seek protection with Byzantine and Arab Christians in the North and Ethiopian Christians in the South. But as Muhammad gained power and set up his community in Medina, he grew more critical of the Christian jews and Jews alike. What followed was a full blown war between Muhammad's community, the wealthy elite that opposed him, and the wealthy Christian-jewish families that populated the South.

Thus, Islam also comes from the same Kernel of truth that Christianity does. While I am deeply skeptical of the overtures made by the Holy Father towards Islam, and deeply troubled by the blind hate of many laymen towards Islam, we accept as a whole that they do indeed believe in and worship the Abrahamic God. The same with Judaism. This is a requisite for being Catholic; you can find it in your catechism.
[/quote]
Do Protestants worship the same God as Catholics?

Interesting about when that shift in Mohammad's views came from. I must finish reading the Quran some day. That would be an interesting discussion thread, the same question as this thread on Judaism but asked of Islam.

[Micah]

[quote name='Light and Truth' timestamp='1293065875' post='2194034']
Do Protestants worship the same God as Catholics?

Interesting about when that shift in Mohammad's views came from. I must finish reading the Quran some day. That would be an interesting discussion thread, the same question as this thread on Judaism but asked of Islam.
[/quote]

Oh yes, definitely. Protestants are considered our brothers and sisters despite their misguidance. I like any thread on Islam and Christianity. it's a fascinating topic thats changed so much so many times in history, even to this day.

[thessalonian]

The analogy I like for questions like this is you can describe a ball as round and red and rubber. A physicist will likely describe it as having a certain molecular/atomic composition, a hue on the color spectrum, and elastic constants and properties of rubber. Both are true. The second is not contradictory to the first but a deeper understanding. Catholicism is a much deeper understanding of true Judaism and not contradictory to it. Both are true. One would not be in trouble in Catholicism for affirming the judaism of the old testament but denying the deeper truths of Catholcism.

[LadyOfSorrows]

[quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1293128671' post='2194144']
The second is not contradictory to the first but a deeper understanding. Catholicism is a much deeper understanding of true Judaism and not contradictory to it. Both are true. One would not be in trouble in Catholicism for affirming the judaism of the old testament but denying the deeper truths of Catholcism.
[/quote]

Agreed.

[Seven77]

This is an awesome talk i heard in Advent:


Shadows of the Messiah:
Prophecies of the Coming Christ
http://instituteofcatholicculture.org/media.htm#shadows

[Anastasia13]

Modern Judaism says the messiah will not be God, and a one cannot die for the sins of another. Catholicism says the messiah has come and was God as well as man and that He died for our sins. The oral Torah and oral law of Judaism requires a traditional orthodox Jew to deny fundamental aspects of the Christian faith. It is the written Torah, Nevi'im, and Ketuvim or what might be called the Old Testament that Catholicism can agree with (depending on the interpretation as the karaite Jews don't use the Talmud), and a few other pieces of the religion. Certainly not all of modern Judaism as it is taught is truth. I know that some of the Jews has to be blind for the gospel to spread to the gentiles, but Satan is the father of lies. They have a lot from God with creme from the devil.

[quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1293128671' post='2194144']Catholicism is a much deeper understanding of true Judaism and not contradictory to it. Both are true. One would not be in trouble in Catholicism for affirming the judaism of the old testament but denying the deeper truths of Catholcism.[/quote]
Only the true Judiasm, not the popular ones.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Light and Truth

[Semper Catholic]

Posting in a troll thread