Liberal Catholics

[Socrates]

[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' date='04 May 2010 - 04:44 PM' timestamp='1273005898' post='2104973']
From one perspective would not capitalism be liberal?
I mean, after all, capitalism essentially opens the possibility that more people can freely attain wealth, instead of wealth being limited to an oligarchy, to an elite bunch, and all ownership being limited to them too. Doesn't capitalism liberalize the ownership rights of the masses, and opens for them the opportunity for wealth.

I only say this because the modern capitalist tends to be conservative, and considers, ironically, all "liberalism" as oppressive, because it puts too much power in the government, or in a few.

Therefore, I think these labels are STUPID.
[/quote]
Contemporary "liberalism" has very little to with classical liberalism, especially in economics and politics.
What's commonly called liberalism today would be more accurately described as a form of leftist statist socialism.

Today, liberalism has nothing to do with political or economic freedom (the original meaning of the word "liberal"); the only kind of "freedom" it promotes is sexual and moral license.
As someone (forget who) famously said a long time ago, "The only bonds a liberal would break are the marriage bonds."

[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' date='06 May 2010 - 03:02 PM' timestamp='1273172561' post='2105946']
I just don't like this approach, of a bunch of conservative Catholics, sitting in their little conservative bubble talking smack about a bunch of people they disagree with. I don't think it adds anything to our faith, at least it does little for me. It does not help us to become more charitable, and it does not help us to love Christ. In fact, it can make us so defensive and resistant, that when someone who is liberal actually does espouse a position that is congruent to our universal Catholic doctrine, it becomes policy to undermine that very doctrine by dismissing it mindlessly with more labels.
[/quote]
I find it interesting that it is presumed that conservatives and the orthodox live in bubbles. I always thought we lived in caves, which explains our unenlightened, troglodyte ways.
I suppose, presumably when we move out of our bubbles and caves and see the light, we will adopt Leftist viewpoints on things and rally around Obama.

I guess we should all just say nice politically correct things so others will see how sophisticated and worldly we are.


Christian charity does not oblige me to say nice things about liberalism or any other false ideology.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Socrates

[JimR-OCDS]

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[/size][/b]lib·er·al adj. 1. a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.


con·ser·va·tive adj. 1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.2. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.3. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.
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[url="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/"]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/[/url]
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[color="#000000"]It takes a progressive mindset to see that change is needed, while the conservative desires to keep the status quo.

Hope this helps.
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[color="#000000"]Jim[/color]
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[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='07 May 2010 - 03:39 PM' timestamp='1273264744' post='2106425']
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[/size][/b]lib·er·al adj. 1. a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.


con·ser·va·tive adj. 1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.2. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.3. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.
[i][color="#226699"]
[url="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/"]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/[/url]
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[color="#000000"]It takes a progressive mindset to see that change is needed, while the conservative desires to keep the status quo.

Hope this helps.
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[color="#000000"]Jim[/color]
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[/quote]
Hate to break it to you, but "tolerance" and "broad mindedness" (at least as they are generally defined today) are certainly not desirable character traits for a Catholic.

[Winchester]

Liberals also love definitions that make themselves look good.

Why don't you look up what the popes say about liberalism and then get back to us? Sorry, there was no Pope Kennedy.

[Bennn]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='07 May 2010 - 10:48 PM' timestamp='1273265329' post='2106429']
Hate to break it to you, but "tolerance" and "broad mindedness" (at least as they are generally defined today) are certainly not desirable character traits for a Catholic.
[/quote]


Indeed. The way to hell is broad, while the gate to salvation is narrow. People dance their way into the eternal fire, while those who get scoffed for their 'bigotry' and 'narrowmindedness' walk the small path into Heaven. That doesn't mean that we have to attack people on their person, but we do have the moral obligation to reproach poisonous doctrine. Charity demands it from us.

A Priest complained to Saint Padre Pio one day. He said: "Father, I can't say these things in my parish, because everyone will leave!" The Saint answered: "Well, it is better to have an empty church, than to have a church filled with demons."

Pax Domini,
Ben

Edited May 7, 2010 by Bennn

[Winchester]

[quote name='Bennn' date='07 May 2010 - 04:59 PM' timestamp='1273265976' post='2106437']
Indeed. The way to hell is broad, while the gate to salvation is narrow. People dance their way into the eternal fire, while those who get scoffed for their 'bigotry' and 'narrowmindedness' walk the small path into Heaven. That doesn't mean that we have to attack people on their person, but we do have the moral obligation to reproach poisonous doctrine. Charity demands it from us.

A Priest complained to Saint Padre Pio one day. He said: "Father, I can't say these things in my parish, because everyone will leave!" The Saint answered: "Well, it is better to have an empty church, than to have a church filled with demons."

Pax Domini,
Ben
[/quote]
You're being silly. God doesn't care about dogma! The Church is so wrong thinking about silly croutons like truth, when the solution is just treating everyone nice no matter what and supporting people even when they choose to sin! Unicorns, rainbows, government oversight!

[Socrates]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='07 May 2010 - 04:39 PM' timestamp='1273264744' post='2106425']
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[/size][/b]lib·er·al adj. 1. a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.


con·ser·va·tive adj. 1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.2. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.3. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.
[i][color="#226699"]
[url="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/"]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/[/url]
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[color="#000000"]It takes a progressive mindset to see that change is needed, while the conservative desires to keep the status quo.

Hope this helps.
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[color="#000000"]Jim[/color]
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I'm about as conservative as they come, and, believe me, there's a hell of a lot about the current status quo I'd like to see changed.
And I'm sure most conservatives would back me up on that one.

Dictionary definitions tell little about current political reality.

Of course, the kind of change I'm in favor of is quite different than that favored by the Obama lemmings. A three trillion dollar national debt and a socialized America is hardly change I can believe in.

[Bennn]

[quote name='Winchester' date='07 May 2010 - 11:05 PM' timestamp='1273266336' post='2106438']
You're being silly. God doesn't care about dogma! The Church is so wrong thinking about silly croutons like truth, when the solution is just treating everyone nice no matter what and supporting people even when they choose to sin! Unicorns, rainbows, government oversight!
[/quote]


Candy mountain, Charlie!

Pax Domini,
Ben

[Hassan]

[quote name='Socrates' date='06 May 2010 - 02:29 PM' timestamp='1273170571' post='2105932']
One's upbringing can be insane.

Modern liberalism is systematically taught madness, and would be readily recognized as such by most in prior ages.
[/quote]

Yeah!

I like your clear, objective thinking!

[Hassan]

[quote name='Socrates' date='07 May 2010 - 05:11 PM' timestamp='1273266678' post='2106441']
I'm about as conservative as they come, and, believe me, there's a hell of a lot about the current status quo I'd like to see changed.
And I'm sure most conservatives would back me up on that one.

[/quote]


That's because you are not a conservative in the historical or literal sense of the word.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Hassan' date='07 May 2010 - 06:17 PM' timestamp='1273270630' post='2106475']
That's because you are not a conservative in the historical or literal sense of the word.
[/quote]
He's the smartest most crever, most physicarry fit.

[kamiller42]

I wish to conserve what is good about America and change what is not, e.g. the Obama regime's agenda.

[Socrates]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='07 May 2010 - 07:14 PM' timestamp='1273274075' post='2106503']
I wish to conserve what is good about America and change what is not, e.g. the Obama regime's agenda.
[/quote]
Well and succinctly put.

I wish America to return to the vision and values of its founding, which has been largely abandoned over the past century.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='07 May 2010 - 04:39 PM' timestamp='1273264744' post='2106425']
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[b][size="3"][/size][/b]
[/size][/b]lib·er·al adj. 1. a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.


con·ser·va·tive adj. 1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.2. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.3. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.
[i]
[url="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/"]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/[/url]
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[color="#000000"]It takes a progressive mindset to see that change is needed, while the conservative desires to keep the status quo.

Hope this helps.
[/color]
[color="#000000"]Jim[/color]
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[/size][/b]foolish·ness n.
Synonyms: foolish, silly, fatuous, absurd, preposterous, ridiculous, ludicrous
These adjectives are applied to what is so devoid of wisdom or good sense as to be laughable: a foolish expenditure of energy; a silly argument; made fatuous remarks; an absurd idea that is bound to fail; a preposterous excuse that no one believed; offered a ridiculous explanation for his tardiness; a ludicrous criticism that was immediately dismissed.
[i][url="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/"]http://www.thefreedictionary.com/[/url]
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Hope this helps.

Edited May 8, 2010 by USAirwaysIHS

[Nihil Obstat]

Lol, that was fun guys. Next round is on me.