Liberal Catholics

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Hilde' date='04 May 2010 - 02:44 PM' timestamp='1272998680' post='2104913']
And slowly(not skim) read veritatis splendour. I find it to be a good read.
[/quote]
oh. coolness..

[Hilde]

It speaks a little about liberalism and concience one of the parts I remember is this :

[quote]36. The modern concern for the claims of autonomy has not failed to exercise an influence also in the sphere of Catholic moral theology. While the latter has certainly never attempted to set human freedom against the divine law or to question the existence of an ultimate religious foundation for moral norms, it has, nonetheless, been led to undertake a profound rethinking about the role of reason and of faith in identifying moral norms with reference to specific "innerworldly" kinds of behaviour involving oneself, others and the material world.

It must be acknowledged that underlying this work of rethinking there are certain positive concerns which to a great extent belong to the best tradition of Catholic thought. In response to the encouragement of the Second Vatican Council,60 there has been a desire to foster dialogue with modern culture, emphasizing the rational — and thus universally understandable and communicable — character of moral norms belonging to the sphere of the natural moral law.61 There has also been an attempt to reaffirm the interior character of the ethical requirements deriving from that law, requirements which create an obligation for the will only because such an obligation was previously acknowledged by human reason and, concretely, by personal conscience.

Some people, however, disregarding the dependence of human reason on Divine Wisdom and the need, given the present state of fallen nature, for Divine Revelation as an effective means for knowing moral truths, even those of the natural order,62 have actually posited a complete sovereignty of reason in the domain of moral norms regarding the right ordering of life in this world. Such norms would constitute the boundaries for a merely "human" morality; they would be the expression of a law which man in an autonomous manner lays down for himself and which has its source exclusively in human reason. In no way could God be considered the Author of this law, except in the sense that human reason exercises its autonomy in setting down laws by virtue of a primordial and total mandate given to man by God. These trends of thought have led to a denial, in opposition to Sacred Scripture (cf. Mt 15:3-6) and the Church's constant teaching, of the fact that the natural moral law has God as its author, and that man, by the use of reason, participates in the eternal law, which it is not for him to establish. [/quote]

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Didymus' date='04 May 2010 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1272998512' post='2104909']
wow, great point.
[/quote]

Thank you, thank you *bows* *blows kisses* *flexes muscles*

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='04 May 2010 - 11:17 AM' timestamp='1272997036' post='2104898']
Liberalism is a mental disorder.
[/quote]

No.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='04 May 2010 - 03:39 PM' timestamp='1273001948' post='2104944']
No.
[/quote]
Yes.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='04 May 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1273003389' post='2104949']
Yes.
[/quote]

No.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='04 May 2010 - 04:04 PM' timestamp='1273003499' post='2104950']
No.
[/quote]
Yes.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='04 May 2010 - 01:07 PM' timestamp='1273003642' post='2104952']
Yes.
[/quote]

Nyet.

[JTheresa]

Then what is it?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='JTheresa' date='04 May 2010 - 04:20 PM' timestamp='1273004440' post='2104954']
Then what is it?
[/quote]

A self inflicted handicap of the mind.

Or a disorder of [i]Right Minded[/i] thinking. lol

Edited May 4, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[JTheresa]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='04 May 2010 - 09:22 AM' timestamp='1273004566' post='2104957']
A self inflicted handicap of the mind.

Or a disorder of [i]Right Minded[/i] thinking. lol
[/quote]

oh, I already agreed with you. I was just presenting a thought provoking statement for those who don't.

In other words, everything has a definition and every action or point of view has consequences. What is the definition of liberalism and what are it's consequences.

(I know what they are but again, I'm trying to be thought provoking and bring light to different ideas. The more the ideas are discussed, the closer we will be to finding the true answer to the question)

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Hilde' date='04 May 2010 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1272998999' post='2104915']
It speaks a little about liberalism and concience one of the parts I remember is this :
[/quote]

Pope Pius IX also condemned Liberalism in his [url="http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm"]SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED[/url] it's amazing how much of what him condemned is practiced today.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='JTheresa' date='04 May 2010 - 04:33 PM' timestamp='1273005229' post='2104966']
oh, I already agreed with you. I was just presenting a thought provoking statement for those who don't.

In other words, everything has a definition and every action or point of view has consequences. What is the definition of liberalism and what are it's consequences.

(I know what they are but again, I'm trying to be thought provoking and bring light to different ideas. The more the ideas are discussed, the closer we will be to finding the true answer to the question)
[/quote]

Well Pascendi Dominici Gregis, Veritatis Splendour and my post above to the link of to the Syllabus of Errors by Pius IX does a good job at defining liberalism.

[Ephrem Augustine]

From one perspective would not capitalism be liberal?
I mean, after all, capitalism essentially opens the possibility that more people can freely attain wealth, instead of wealth being limited to an oligarchy, to an elite bunch, and all ownership being limited to them too. Doesn't capitalism liberalize the ownership rights of the masses, and opens for them the opportunity for wealth.

I only say this because the modern capitalist tends to be conservative, and considers, ironically, all "liberalism" as oppressive, because it puts too much power in the government, or in a few.

Therefore, I think these labels are STUPID.

[Hilde]

liberal can mean different things. In Norway liberal means someone who wants the government to have less power. The two examples of parties I first think of is a dark blue one and a moderate one, so it doesn't have to be a left/right thing, except the marxist inspired ones is suppose.

Liberal can also mean market-liberal free trade and so on.

From Americans I often hear liberal be used about people who want to liberalize morals. "freedom" to abort, adopt babies when you are in a same-sex relationship and so on.