A Few Questions

[Jennifer G.]

I've been talking to my mom about religious life (she sort of knew already and actually brought up the conversation). Also bear in mind that I'm a convert, and my mom is Lutheran (dad's a fallen-away Catholic). I pretty much want to know how to answer some of the concerns she has. First off, I don't drive (my parents would have to drive me), so I'm limited to - and I asked them this - a 70 mile radius. The archdiocese that I'm limited to are:

Diocese of Harrisburg
Diocese of Allentown (extreme south-west)
Archdiocese of Philadelphia (south-west)
Archdiocese of Baltimore
Archdiocese of Washington DC
Diocese of Wilmington (central/northern)

City-wise, that's from Hagerstown, Md to the Delaware river/bay, and from Harrisburg to La Plata, Md.

Basically, my mom's concerns are this -

1 - That I wouldn't be able to visit family and vice versa (that is, more than once a month). If she knew about the Carmelite "grill", she might think it's like a jail or something (which would also upset her because she wouldn't be able to hug me).
2 - That I wouldn't be there when my mom and dad are in the hospital about to kick the bucket, and that they would die without having all of their children (just me and my sister). (to her, the first two would be ghastly horrible)
3 - That I would be "throwing away all of the money I saved up for retirement and could use for fun things" (yes, I know this is a 'tried-and-true' objection).
4 - That, since I'd be giving up my money, if the convent folds up, I'd have no money and be out on the streets.

There's other logical concerns like having to go to a place for hearing aid and eye docter appointments. So, a place out in the middle of nowhere (like Loretto or Eylsburg) might not be pratical. Granted, I don't want a place smack-dab in the middle of a city, either (like Buffalo or Philly).

Another concern (which I've also thought about) is that my job (computer programmer) is very specific. The place where I work has had a very difficult time finding qualified programmers (I think the fact that many IT jobs are outsourced may be the reason). So, it's not like a teacher, or nurse who's position can be easily filled.


Now, my mom will bring up little things like, "Well, as a nun/sister, you wouldn't be able to do a/b/c or have a/b/c", "What if a nun/sister didn't feel like being a teacher and wanted to do XYZ instead?", "What if a nun/sister wanted to listen to the radio?", "What if a sister/nun decides she made a mistake and didn't want to be a nun?". She and my sister have it set that my sister (who wants to be a college professor now, along with her business) will make tons of money and have me live with them in a nice house out in the country with a personal rider. (If I didn't know any better, I'd say all of this inticing with worldly 'perks' and promises is a spiritual attack in a way)

So, what would I say to her? Also, what orders, besides the Port Tobacco Carmelites (that convent keeps popping up for me! ) are within the areas listed above (Harrisburg, Baltimore, Wilmington, Washington) that have habits, do not relocate sisters (i.e., one year they might be in a convent in Maryland, then they're sent to Africa or something), and have an 'older' age limit (35-40+)?

Edited May 3, 2010 by Jennifer G.

[Vincent Vega]

I can't give you advice for a myriad reasons, but not least of all because the only thing playing in my head is "Emmitsburg!" (you can thank my bunchie-loving friend over there (<-) for that. (I know that the Daughters of Charity probably aren't what you're looking for, but I couldn't resist a Vincentian/Setonian plug in a thread about religious life in Maryland. )

[magnificat]

[quote name='Jennifer G.' date='02 May 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1272854368' post='2103958']
1 - That I wouldn't be able to visit family and vice versa (that is, more than once a month). If she knew about the Carmelite "grill", she might think it's like a jail or something (which would also upset her because she wouldn't be able to hug me).
[/quote]
There's not much response to this other than, yes, there are obviously some limitations on family visitation, regardless of what type of community you may want to enter. If you have a better idea of what community God may be calling you to, the vocations director can certainly tell you the specific limits. One way to explain the limits is to analogize it to one taking a job and moving to a different country; you'd be limited in the amount of visits you would be able to make home simply because of money/time, etc.


[quote name='Jennifer G.' date='02 May 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1272854368' post='2103958']
2 - That I wouldn't be there when my mom and dad are in the hospital about to kick the bucket, and that they would die without having all of their children (just me and my sister). (to her, the first two would be ghastly horrible)
[/quote]

Again, you may be able to reassure her depending on the communities you're looking at - for example most active and contemplative/active communities will let sisters travel home to be with dying parents, etc. Obviously a cloistered order will be different. Again, you can explain to her (though this is probalby not comforting either!) is that if she were to die very suddenly, it's likely her family would not be able to be at her bedside anyway. There's no way we can know these things - certainly your happiness (and your soul!) shouldn't be held up by what she may or may not want in the future based on circumstances no one can control.

[quote name='Jennifer G.' date='02 May 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1272854368' post='2103958']

3 - That I would be "throwing away all of the money I saved up for retirement and could use for fun things" (yes, I know this is a 'tried-and-true' objection).
[/quote]

One would think that the present state of economic affairs would be enough to rebut this argument. Certainly money is not the guarantee of freedom, leisure, etc. And presumably if you were to enter you'd dispose of your money in a way that would help others, etc.

[quote name='Jennifer G.' date='02 May 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1272854368' post='2103958']
4 - That, since I'd be giving up my money, if the convent folds up, I'd have no money and be out on the streets.
[/quote]

Again, in the unlikely event that something like that would occur, you would still remain a religious sister or nun. There are procedures in place within the Church that would allow for you to be incorporated into another reliious community, etc. So you wouldn't be tossed out on the streets.

I don't really have suggestions about orders in that geographic area but I'd start by checking the diocesan websites - look under the vocations or consecrated life sections or write to the vocations director for those dioceses. They will be able to get you a listing of all the religious communities in those areas and you can narrow them down from there.

[AccountDeleted]

Jennifer G. - think about why you want to enter religious life and it might help you to answer some of these questions yourself. If you were in love with someone and wanted to marry them, and that meant that you had to live somewhere where your parents could not visit you easily, what would your choice be? It would still be hard and painful for all concerned to make the sacrifice but you would know why you were doing it, because you wanted to be near the one you love most in the world, and your family would understand that you wanted to be with your beloved. If you were to explain things this way to your mother, perhaps she would understand it better.

At this point in time, if you are serious about discernment, it would be most valuable to start meeting with a spiritual director who could guide and advise you and also help you when it comes time to provide a reference to a community.

Although you are attracted to the Carmelites, be aware that this is a very austere Order and that you are much less likely to have close contact with family as a Carmelite than you would if you joined an unenclosed community.

And rather than focussing on all of the things that you would have to 'give up', perhaps try to focus on just what you would like to offer to God in gratitude for His great kindness in allowing to feel a call to religious life. Nothing that we could offer to Him will ever be able to repay Him for what He has already given us in Christ Jesus, and to feel a call to come closer to Him in this way is a special blessing.

My prayers are with you [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/pray.gif[/img]

Check out this site for possibilities [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/www.religiouslife.com"]Institute on Religious Life[/url]

Edited May 3, 2010 by nunsense

[Cherie]

[quote name='Jennifer G.' date='02 May 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1272854368' post='2103958']


1 - That I wouldn't be able to visit family and vice versa (that is, more than once a month). If she knew about the Carmelite "grill", she might think it's like a jail or something (which would also upset her because she wouldn't be able to hug me).
2 - That I wouldn't be there when my mom and dad are in the hospital about to kick the bucket, and that they would die without having all of their children (just me and my sister). (to her, the first two would be ghastly horrible)
3 - That I would be "throwing away all of the money I saved up for retirement and could use for fun things" (yes, I know this is a 'tried-and-true' objection).
4 - That, since I'd be giving up my money, if the convent folds up, I'd have no money and be out on the streets.

[/quote]

I wouldn't worry at all about #4. If you'd be entering a new community, yes, there is a chance they could "fold up" -- but most communities (and especially the Carmelites, since that seems to be what you are considering) wouldn't fold. Their communities have been around for centuries, and if they've survived Vatican II, they can survive anything! A good "litmus test" of how you'd know is if they are receiving regular new vocations. That's a good sign they'll be around for a long time!!!

If you are thinking of a Carmelite vocation, then yes, she would be "right" about 1, 2, and 3. My parents were completely upset about my joining religious life when I did -- they didn't even want to stay for the reception the Sisters held for the postulants' family members. But after about a year or so, by God's grace, they finally became supportive and happy for me. It can take time, but sooner or later they will see that if it's God's will for you, you'll be truly happy, and wouldn't be able to find that peace and happiness anywhere else.

But rather off-topic, I think you should go to the Harrisburg Diocese That's my old diocese, yay!

[Sister Marie]

Dear Jennifer,

I can relate to a lot of what you are saying. My family is also Lutheran and I am a convert. My mom is the fall-away Catholic. Shortly after I converted I started discerning religious life and my family thought that it was a phase I would get over. Well, I didn't! I belong to an active community and I live in the archdiocese of Philadelphia. I can't answer most of your questions because they vary from community to community. However, what was most helpful in my family situation was that when I got to know the community I am a part of now, the directress of vocations invited my parents to the formation house, gave them a tour of the common areas, and answered any questions they wanted to ask. Although they weren't excited it did bring them some peace of mind. I don't know if this helps but know of my prayers for you!

Sister Marie

[Totus Tuus]

I am sure you will get lots of good answers, but all I want to say is, pray a lot for your parents. A lot of turnarounds happen. They're totally out of sync with the whole Catholicism/religious life thing right now, but as they get used to it, they might -- far from begrudging your decision -- be grateful to you for bringing them into a new reality that they never knew anything about.

[Starets]

Here at least, we have two brothers currently staying with extremely ill or dying mothers, so it is possible that if #2 should come about, there may be a way for you to be there for them.

[CatherineM]

I've had to wear things I didn't want to because of work. I've had to do jobs I really hated, or go somewhere I didn't want to because my boss told me to. I suppose the biggest difference would be that you would be less likely to be asked to do something immoral by a mother superior. I've had bosses ask me to lie, cheat, steal and even worse. I don't think there are many people over the age of 40 who have been in the real working world who haven't been asked to do the same.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='Jennifer G.' date='02 May 2010 - 11:39 PM' timestamp='1272854368' post='2103958']
I've been talking to my mom about religious life (she sort of knew already and actually brought up the conversation). Also bear in mind that I'm a convert, and my mom is Lutheran (dad's a fallen-away Catholic). I pretty much want to know how to answer some of the concerns she has. First off, [b]I don't drive (my parents would have to drive me), so I'm limited to - and I asked them this - a 70 mile radius[/b]. The archdiocese that I'm limited to are:

Diocese of Harrisburg
Diocese of Allentown (extreme south-west)
Archdiocese of Philadelphia (south-west)
Archdiocese of Baltimore
Archdiocese of Washington DC
Diocese of Wilmington (central/northern)

...

[/quote]


Would you be willing to take a Greyhound bus, a train, or airplane to visit various communities outside the 70-mile radius? Like you, I also cannot drive, but I have had good friends that were willing to take me to a bus station or airport and pick me up.

[SrBenigna]

Regarding visit orders by plane or bus, if you decided to fly or take a bus somewhere, many orders either have externs or friends of the community to pick you up at the airport and bring you back there after the visit so you wouldn't have to drive.

If not, they can help you figure out local buses or taxis to take to get to them - and either local hotels/motels/inns or even stay with a family close to the sisters as a guest - a favor to help out the sisters and you.

Follow your heart and God's call and not your families wishes. It is your vocation, not their's. Giving up all for God and trusting in Him is not always easy. The more you give up for Him the more He gives back to you and your family - and the more you can do for your family with prayers, sacrifices, etc.

Also don't enter a place that is not the deepest desire of your heart and where God wants you. It's not like accepting a job where you can take one or the other and still work there for years or all you life and be able to bear it because you are only there 40 hrs a week and can forget about it on the weekends, holidays, vacation time, after work and be with friends or even watch TV! You'd be beyond miserable in an order you weren't called for and really didn't want just to placate your family, plus you'd end up leaving or being sent home.

You wouldn't be the first to go far from home to enter a monastery and not the first to leave parents - younger or older. Many men and women have entered orders and they were the only child in the family but if God calls you to religious life, He will take care of your family and their needs.

Edited May 3, 2010 by SrBenigna

[she_who_is_not]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='03 May 2010 - 03:28 PM' timestamp='1272914934' post='2104264']
I've had to wear things I didn't want to because of work. I've had to do jobs I really hated, or go somewhere I didn't want to because my boss told me to. I suppose the biggest difference would be that you would be less likely to be asked to do something immoral by a mother superior. [b]I've had bosses ask me to lie, cheat, steal and even worse.[/b][u][/u] I don't think there are many people over the age of 40 who have been in the real working world who haven't been asked to do the same.
[/quote]

I don't suppose those bosses would be from your time spent as a lawyer? I had a classmate who once told an interviewer that if his boss asked him to kill he'd do it. I sometimes worry when people bring their babies and dogs to the law school. I wonder if they know how many psychos we have walking around.
Sorry for the hijack.

[Cherie]

I would just like to add, that while it is important to go where God is calling you personally no matter where it might be, it is possible (and happens often) that God works with our circumstances, and uses what we consider human limitations to accomplish His Will.

So, the fact that there is only a 70-mile radius of places you can visit right now could very well mean that it's God's Will that you discern in that 70-mile radius (because at this moment, it is, since it is my understanding you have no other way of traveling further).

Edited May 3, 2010 by CherieMadame

[CatherineM]

[quote name='she_who_is_not' date='03 May 2010 - 05:29 PM' timestamp='1272925778' post='2104438']
I don't suppose those bosses would be from your time spent as a lawyer? I had a classmate who once told an interviewer that if his boss asked him to kill he'd do it. I sometimes worry when people bring their babies and dogs to the law school. I wonder if they know how many psychos we have walking around.
Sorry for the hijack.
[/quote]
Yes, it included the time I spent as a lawyer, but I was the staff attorney for an ecumenical organization, so all three of the bosses I had while there were ordained ministers. Two Methodist, and one Disciples of Christ.