dominicansoul Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='02 May 2010 - 10:18 PM' timestamp='1272853127' post='2103934'] The exodus from Mexico does nothing at all to improve Mexico, in fact it only makes matters worse. The open border is destroying Mexico. It is creating a vacuum. Running away from their problems will not make those problems go away, they will only bring those problems with them. And when those problems come to America, where will they run then? Where do there loyalties actually lie? They betrayed their homeland and left it for dead, would they not do the same for America? Illegal immigrates from Mexico may not read or speak English but there not stupid. They know what they are doing is illegal, this is why they avoid law enforcement like the plague. Any Illegal immigrate no matter their race is a criminal, it is completely fair to state that because it is the truth. [/quote] how much time have you spent with illegal immigrants from Mexico? I can guess....little to none? The mexican government, since the early part of the 20th century, has been tinged with marxist tendencies. It was so bad in the 1920s that they even killed priests, nuns, burned down convents and scared the hey outta a lot of devout Catholics down there. This started a massive exodus to the U.S.A... (my grandparents arrived in Texas legally...but at that time, it wasn't so difficult to obtain citizenship as it is now...) ...laws from that era have stayed on the books. Did you know it is illegal for priests and nuns to wear their religious garb while traveling in and out of the country? This isn't actually enforced anymore, but it's still on the books. Recently, the laws concerning abortion have changed. And we all know that the drug lords and gang members have infiltrated law enforcement agencies in Mexico. They are crooked as they come. the millions who are fleeing their country have little or no affect on the way their country is managed. It's gonna take a coup d'etat or another country's intervention to change the way things are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern california guy Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 Perhaps I'm bringing up something that's already been mentioned but I think that the news is covering the situation in a strange fashion. It reminds me the way the news reported about the two border guards who were prosecuted in Texas for firing back at a drug runner. Early on -- before their names had been released -- they were being characterized as "white supremacists". Once their names were released as "Ramos" and "Compean" that stopped. From what I understand a large number of the people in Arizona -- who pushed for this bill -- are Latino. If you do an internet search using the keywords "Mexican drug war Arizona" you will get a large number of news stories from the last year or two. There's a lot of drug related violence south of the border right now. Here are a few links: [url="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=101333926"]Mexican Drug War Brings Violence To Arizona[/url] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54ls5AIveO0"]Lisa Ling exposes dangerous drug war in Arizona [/url] [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/25/us/25border.html"]In Drug War, Tribe Feels Invaded by Both Sides [/url] [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/24/world/americas/24iht-mexico.1.20393351.html"]Mexican drug cartels' turf war may be spreading to Arizona[/url] [url="http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/02/24/20090224border0224.html"]Mexican drug wars may cross into Ariz. Police warn lawmakers about cartel gunbattles [/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='02 May 2010 - 10:21 PM' timestamp='1272853304' post='2103938'] The illegal immigrants who will be penalized under the new law in Arizona will most likely be the "scumbags" who the police will catch in the middle of a drug deal and then discover that the "scumbags" are in fact illegal immigrants. By the way, I find it odd how you are quick to call certain people "scumbags" as you protest a law that others on your side deem "dehumanizing". Is calling someone a "scumbag" [i]not[/i] dehumanizing? Am I missing something? "Innocent" as in "American citizens"? If an American citizen forgot his licence and was pulled over for speeding, he might be brought to the station for questioning but it would not be hard for the police to look him up in the system. An American citizen would not be shifted off to Mexico on a whim. They do not have the right to amnesty in a country they are in illegally. [/quote] I call them scumbags in light of the attrocious crimes they commit... just as I call radical militant muslims scumbags, homicidal maniacs scumbags, child predators scumbags... serial killers scumbags in fact, I think "scumbag" is too nice a word... this does nothing to "de-humanize" them as much as their own actions already have... as far as an american citizen being shifted to mexico...it happens...has happened to several people I know...it's easier than you think (there are a lot... a lot of elderly mexicans americans who do not carry such documentation with them, do not know english, cannot communicate well with the police, and get sent on a bus back to the border....) Edited May 3, 2010 by dominicansoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='02 May 2010 - 10:23 PM' timestamp='1272853416' post='2103939'] Hold on, let me check my avatar and location. Hey, your observation proved true. [/quote] you are thinking in ideals, and I wish the ideal was that mexicans won't be stopped on a whim...but that's not the reality...not down here...never has been...this law will probably not effect that so much as to perhaps aggravate what already occurs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 [quote name='southern california guy' date='02 May 2010 - 10:34 PM' timestamp='1272854084' post='2103952'] Perhaps I'm bringing up something that's already been mentioned but I think that the news is covering the situation in a strange fashion. It reminds me the way the news reported about the two border guards who were prosecuted in Texas for firing back at a drug runner. Early on -- before their names had been released -- they were being characterized as "white supremacists". Once their names were released as "Ramos" and "Compean" that stopped. From what I understand a large number of the people in Arizona -- who pushed for this bill -- are Latino. If you do an internet search using the keywords "Mexican drug war Arizona" you will get a large number of news stories from the last year or two. There's a lot of drug related violence south of the border right now. Here are a few links: [url="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=101333926"]Mexican Drug War Brings Violence To Arizona[/url] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54ls5AIveO0"]Lisa Ling exposes dangerous drug war in Arizona [/url] [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/25/us/25border.html"]In Drug War, Tribe Feels Invaded by Both Sides [/url] [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/24/world/americas/24iht-mexico.1.20393351.html"]Mexican drug cartels' turf war may be spreading to Arizona[/url] [url="http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/02/24/20090224border0224.html"]Mexican drug wars may cross into Ariz. Police warn lawmakers about cartel gunbattles [/url] [/quote] then they need to prosecute the criminals, and leave the law-abiding Mexican Americans alone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 [quote name='dominicansoul' date='02 May 2010 - 10:43 PM' timestamp='1272854588' post='2103960'] you are thinking in ideals, and I wish the ideal was that mexicans won't be stopped on a whim...but that's not the reality...not down here...never has been...this law will probably not effect that so much as to perhaps aggravate what already occurs... [/quote] Except the law is in Arizona, not the south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 [quote name='dominicansoul' date='02 May 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1272854382' post='2103959'] as far as an american citizen being shifted to mexico...it happens...has happened to several people I know...it's easier than you think (there are a lot... a lot of elderly mexicans americans who do not carry such documentation with them, do not know english, cannot communicate well with the police, and get sent on a bus back to the border....) [/quote] You know Mexican Americans who are legal citizens of the United States that do not speak English or carry identification? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenciledOne Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='02 May 2010 - 11:30 PM' timestamp='1272853823' post='2103942'] I think you haven't even read the law. So how you can make that conclusion is actually funny. [/quote] Well, I find it funny that your name is [u]Knight[/u] of Christ. Since, originally knights helped the poor and weak and etc. some of these illegal immigrants are just that. So, let's make sure we have our basket straight ok? [b] E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON 38 IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED 39 ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES.[/b] -This will lead to plenty of assumptions. I am not saying that racism plays apart here, but much like Arabs in airports after 9/11 we will have Mexicans stopped everywhere and that does not sow seeds of good feelings does it? [b]E. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER LAW, A PEACE OFFICER MAY LAWFULLY STOP 21 ANY PERSON WHO IS OPERATING A MOTOR VEHICLE IF THE OFFICER HAS REASONABLE 22 SUSPICION TO BELIEVE THE PERSON IS IN VIOLATION OF ANY CIVIL TRAFFIC LAW AND 23 THIS SECTION.[/b] -'Peace' is the operative word here, but I will leave that be. Again, this will lead to assumptions, I just don't like the word 'believe' in this law becuase believe is often replaced with opinion. So, yes I have heard the law dear sir. Please, keep the slightly bemused tone out of your posts though. and HCF - I keep saying de-humanized, because assumptions take the humanity of a person. If I assume that you are just a middle-class white college student, what am I reducing you too? I am reducing you to categories, while if I call you by name, (sorry I don't know your name), it makes you more human. Of course this is at least my perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='02 May 2010 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1272854811' post='2103964'] Except the law is in Arizona, not the south. [/quote] hmmm...last i checked...arizona is one of the southern states bordering Mexico? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='02 May 2010 - 10:50 PM' timestamp='1272855041' post='2103966'] You know Mexican Americans who are legal citizens of the United States that do not speak English or carry identification? [/quote] several...many in their 70's and 80's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 [quote name='dominicansoul' date='02 May 2010 - 10:52 PM' timestamp='1272855145' post='2103968'] hmmm...last i checked...arizona is one of the southern states bordering Mexico? [/quote] "The south" typically refers to Virginia, Alabama, Georgia, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='02 May 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1272855533' post='2103971'] "The south" typically refers to Virginia, Alabama, Georgia, etc. [/quote] well I'm not typical... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 [quote name='dominicansoul' date='02 May 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1272855305' post='2103969'] several...many in their 70's and 80's.... [/quote] So they were either born in America or gained citizenship and still do not know how to speak the language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 [quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='02 May 2010 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1272855065' post='2103967'] and HCF - I keep saying de-humanized, because assumptions take the humanity of a person. If I assume that you are just a middle-class white college student, what am I reducing you too? I am reducing you to categories, while if I call you by name, (sorry I don't know your name), it makes you more human. Of course this is at least my perspective. [/quote] Erin. The police have to see something suspicious before they can just jump to conclusions. Like I said before, a man lurking about an alley in a high crime area is going to be asked for his paperwork. A couple strolling through the public park at noon on a Sunday is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='02 May 2010 - 11:01 PM' timestamp='1272855675' post='2103973'] So they were either born in America or gained citizenship and still do not know how to speak the language. [/quote] well, their generation grew up in America when there was "segregation." The towns my great grandparents adopted were so divided, that most of the mexican american communities did not assimilate to the english communities surrounding them, because there was little to no interaction... my grandmother lived to be 90 years old, and only knew a few phrases in english... ...sadly, the tables have turned...I have no knowledge of Spanish, even though it was spoken fluently by both my parents. But they made sure I learned English, so that I wouldn't be discrimated against as much as they had been... ...the discrimination still persisted, though...i'm not trying to make myself or Mexican Americans victims....but the reality is, racism is still rampant in these parts (especially in states bordering Mexico...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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