Arizona Immigration Bill

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='30 April 2010 - 09:58 PM' timestamp='1272679093' post='2102960']
If you want to escape from slavery, do so legally.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
If Mexico wants to begin paying taxes to the United States government, then the citizens of Mexico may start living as US citizens at will.
Until that point, the US and Mexico are sovereign nations whose governments owe nothing to the citizens of the other nation, and have the right to persecute those who are illegally inhabiting their nation.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='30 April 2010 - 10:56 PM' timestamp='1272682616' post='2102989']
If Mexico wants to begin paying taxes to the United States government, then the citizens of Mexico may start living as US citizens at will.
Until that point, the US and Mexico are sovereign nations whose governments owe nothing to the citizens of the other nation, and have the right to persecute those who are illegally inhabiting their nation.
[/quote]

Holla.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='30 April 2010 - 10:56 PM' timestamp='1272682616' post='2102989']
If Mexico wants to begin paying taxes to the United States government, then the citizens of Mexico may start living as US citizens at will.
Until that point, the US and Mexico are sovereign nations whose governments owe nothing to the citizens of the other nation, and have the right to persecute those who are illegally inhabiting their nation.
[/quote]

Mexico herself has no problem what so ever in deporting illegals. In fact if you are not a Mexican citizen you cannot even become a fight fighter!

[homeschoolmom]

What's a fight fighter?

[Vincent Vega]

One who fights fights.

Edited May 1, 2010 by USAirwaysIHS

[HisChildForever]

Come on. I think he meant fire fighter.

[homeschoolmom]

Oh... I didn't even think of that. I thought it was a real thing.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='30 April 2010 - 11:04 PM' timestamp='1272683040' post='2102995']
What's a fight fighter?
[/quote]

HEHEHe whoops FIRE fighter...

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='30 April 2010 - 06:47 PM' timestamp='1272671269' post='2102886']

i cant say i envy the people who are gonna get pulled over(even more) for looking mexican in arizona.
[/quote]
My Godmother was from Mexico but because my Godfather's family was originally from Spain, their children were fairly light, but still very identifiable as Hispanic. After 9-11, their son who wore a full beard at the time (I'm sure also thanks to his Spanish heritage) got hassled by people who thought he was Muslim. He said he quickly shaved because it was better to be seen as a "wetback than a camel jockey" at the time.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='30 April 2010 - 09:56 PM' timestamp='1272682616' post='2102989']
If Mexico wants to begin paying taxes to the United States government, then the citizens of Mexico may start living as US citizens at will.
Until that point, the US and Mexico are sovereign nations whose governments owe nothing to the citizens of the other nation, and have the right to persecute those who are illegally inhabiting their nation.
[/quote]

The United State is not a geographical place one may "inhabit." It is a political, and hence, ideological, entity. The United State exists as long as people think and act as though it exists. Without people living according to the idea that they have some right to force people to live according to their wills in a particular way, the United State ceases to exist. This particular geographic region will exist long after the United State has vanished from the earth. I live on the earth on a particular piece of land. I do not live "in" an idea. I am subject to the physical manifestations of the insane idea held by some that they have the right to initiate violence to force non-violent people to live according to their will, including forcing them to surrender the fruits of their labor.

I have no right to take your money by force or threat thereof. Neither do you have the right to demand money of anyone else by force or the threat of force. The end does not justify the means.

The original point remains, of course: You, as an individual, have absolutely no right to stop someone for being brown, and to back up your stopping him with the threat of violence. Because you do not have that right, you cannot bestow that right upon anyone else. Nor by our powers combined can we summon Captain Politics, a wondrous being with rights beyond those of mere mortals, and who comes from a different moral universe to save us from ourselves.

~Sternhauser

[Vincent Vega]

We're not going to get anywhere with this, but I'm at home on a Friday while everyone else I know is at gradbash. So in lieu of being social, I'll play this game with you.

I'm inclined to believe that you don't think that anything actually exists, because by extending your definition of a country, how can you say a bank exists? Sure, it's in a physical building, but that building could be there long after the corporation has been dissolved. All they are is individuals. How can they take away my money when I write a check for an amount greater than what is in my account? Surely you do not have that right, to take my money on a whim if you decide that's what's appropriate. The bank is just an idea.
Let's take it farther. Money doesn't exist. How could a 2.61-by-6.14 inch rectangle of green cotton possibly be exchanged for goods like milk or bread, let alone services like transportation on a jet airliner, or with the upper range of the "denominations" of the "paper currency", things like an automobile? That's absurd! I have cotton t-shirts many times the size of that little piece of cotton with the depiction of a man many decades deceased on it, and I've been laughed at for having tried to trade it for such things as even a hamburger! But they'd accept a small verdant quadrilateral? Nonsense! Money is just an idea, how dare they try to impose their idea of value as though it's more valid than mine.

Here's the thing: society functions based on ideas. Ideas and agreements. Some 330,000,000 people agree that that little green rectangle is worth something. Those same 330,000,000 people agree and consent to - implicitly, by inhabiting the geographic area which some 6.5 billion people agree constitutes it - the laws and conditions of the US. He has agreed that if he breaks the law, the other 329,999,999 people may punish him as they deem appropriate (typically by a group of elected representatives.) If one should decide at any point that he doesn't like these laws or does not consent to them, one of the many agreed upon terms is that one may hit the road (either concrete, as in the Interstate system, or ideological, as in a wooden door cast adrift or by slightly more luxurious means, such as an aircraft) at the time of his earliest volition and/or convenience.

And one last thing:
[quote name='Sternhauser' date='30 April 2010 - 11:27 PM' timestamp='1272684429' post='2103007']
The United State
[/quote]
The name of the country which we both inhabit is the United State[i][b][u]s[/u][/i][/b] of America. If there is a nation known as the United State, neither I nor the UN recognise it.

[CatherineM]

The United States of America, if you please, since what we call Mexico, is in fact the United States of Mexico.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='30 April 2010 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1272680584' post='2102968']
I can't envy the high number of families of murder and rape victims who have to suffer because simple minded emotional illogical appeals are made in favor of an open [b]boarder.[/b] An open [b]boarder[/b] with a nation that is nearly a Failed State, the drug lords more and more each day rule much of Mexico with violence and murder, and now that violence is pouring over the [b]boarder.[/b] But we can't do fix the problem because of many who give into the emotional appeal, and sound bites the people of Arizona cannot enforce basic sovereignty laws.
[/quote]


[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='30 April 2010 - 09:51 PM' timestamp='1272682315' post='2102985']
As a anarchist I know you do not believe in sovereignty, but legalizing cocaine and the other powerful drugs the Murdering Drug Lords sell is only going to make matters worse, coke is not like beer. Arizona has a right to protect her [b]
[b]boarders[/b][/b], and since I know you do not believe in the right of the State to exist I shall have to pay little attention to your points of view on this matter.
[/quote]

This is a small point, but an important one, at least in my view. We all make typos--I certainly do. But, when you are making posts that make serious points, it hurts the credibility of your post if a simple, basic word that is integral to your argument is misspelled. The word is spelled [b]border[/b], not [b]boarder[/b].

This comment is intended to be helpful advice, not a criticism IN ANY WAY. I know you want your posts, and the points you make in your posts, to be taken seriously by other posters. Except for obviously accidental typos, spelling CAN make a difference in how a post is viewed by others, especially if the conversation is a serious one.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='01 May 2010 - 12:15 AM' timestamp='1272687318' post='2103026']
This is a small point, but an important one, at least in my view. We all make typos--I certainly do. But, when you are making posts that make serious points, it hurts the credibility of your post if a simple, basic word that is integral to your argument is misspelled. The word is spelled [b]border[/b], not [b]boarder[/b].

This comment is intended to be helpful advice, not a criticism IN ANY WAY. I know you want your posts, and the points you make in your posts, to be taken seriously by other posters. Except for obviously accidental typos, spelling CAN make a difference in how a post is viewed by others, especially if the conversation is a serious one.
[/quote]

I usually try and reread my post like three times after I submit it because written language can be very hard for me, in my head I see a word backwards or parts of a word backwards, or similar words confused with others because I see them backwards, or jumbled. Like earlier when I typed fightfighter, I meant firefighter I got the first (always want to spell it frits) part backwards, but the last part right. It's even worse trying to think of a sentence sometimes somehow the words seem to stack atop of one another. I have a similar problem with speaking, and yes people do take such a person less serious because they stutter... I don't let it bother me though. I even like when people like yourself try and help me, others here have had the same concerns or notice the same thing you have and I just feel it's better to explain why.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='30 April 2010 - 10:56 PM' timestamp='1272682616' post='2102989']
If Mexico wants to begin paying taxes to the United States government, then the citizens of Mexico may start living as US citizens at will.
Until that point, the US and Mexico are sovereign nations whose governments owe nothing to the citizens of the other nation, and have the right to persecute those who are illegally inhabiting their nation.
[/quote]

AS long as born and raised Mexican AMERICAN citizens ARE NOT harrassed, which...sadly...is inevitable...