Arizona Immigration Bill

[Winchester]

I haven't read the law and I don't trust the media or our politicians to relate it to me truthfully.

It is perfectly acceptable, however, to check immigration status, especially on someone already detained for breaking another law. If we just got rid of all social government programs and changed income tax to sales tax, we could largely forget about immigration status.

But let's not do that. That would be silly!

[kamiller42]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='30 April 2010 - 10:48 AM' timestamp='1272638892' post='2102605']
i don't need the loudmouth left to convince me that I'm going to be racially profiled by law enforcers. I've had enough of that in my life to know that there are those in law enforcement who follow the ideals, and then there are those in law enforcement who follow their own idiotic impulses...extreme racism still exists in our society...[/quote]
I wouldn't say extreme racism exists. I think racism exists, and its exercise is limited to no color.

[quote]That happens with or without these types of bills...just seems that now it's going to make it more legit to racially profile innocent, law-abiding, american citizens...[/quote]
If they can do it now without the bill, then with the bill adds no new racism power. They can simply rely on existing law.

The bill, as I know it, enforces federal law which is supposed to be enforced by federal law enforcement. If federal law enforcement officers can be color blind and avoid charges of racial profiling, I think state and local officers are capable and deserving of the same.

[quote]Honestly, what arizona needs to do is punish all the wealthy people who hire illegals for cheap, cheap labor. If the illegals didn't have work to do here in the States, they would go back to Mexico and [b]try to make something of their own country...[/b]
[/quote]
Won't happen... at least not in our lifetimes.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='30 April 2010 - 11:11 AM' timestamp='1272640290' post='2102617']I wouldn't say extreme racism exists. I think racism exists, and its exercise is limited to no color.[/quote]

You obviously aren't brown and living in the south. Ever been kicked out of a wealthy, all-white church before? If that's not extreme, I don't want to know what extreme is.

[quote]The bill, as I know it, enforces federal law which is supposed to be enforced by federal law enforcement. If federal law enforcement officers can be color blind and avoid charges of racial profiling, I think state and local officers are capable and deserving of the same.[/quote]

as i stated before, that's the ideal...not every deputy dog practices the ideal

[quote]Won't happen... at least not in our lifetimes.
[/quote]
I agree with you on this...

[Winchester]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='30 April 2010 - 11:24 AM' timestamp='1272641044' post='2102623']
You obviously aren't brown and living in the south. Ever been kicked out of a wealthy, all-white church before? If that's not extreme, I don't want to know what extreme is.
[/quote]
The North is more kind about their racism, but they are quite racist, themselves.

Extreme racism does exist--The white supremacist groups are the worst; the second is Nation of Islam.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='30 April 2010 - 03:38 AM' timestamp='1272613135' post='2102555']
one could take the same stance on no knock police home invasions without warrants. if the person inside is innocent then they have nothing to worry about.
[/quote]

A person ignorant of the criminal justice system [i]would[/i] get huffy over "home invasions" without warrants. The police are only allowed to do that if waiting for the search warrant compromises public safety or risks the loss of evidence. Otherwise the police are permitted to conduct the search if they are at the door and something criminal is in plain view, if they are arresting the individual at the home and do a search to ensure their safety (i.e. looking for weapons), or of course the home owner consents to the search in which he may limit the search to certain areas of the home.

Like I said, if you are a citizen or if you are in this country legally, you should not care about being asked a couple of questions. In fact they should be glad that the police are taking the time to defend the laws of this country. My cousin has been profiled as an Arab at airports before but is always willing to follow whatever procedure because security just wants to protect people. That is the sort of mentality every single person should have.

[Sternhauser]

I have no right to stop, with the threat of violence behind me, anyone for being brown, and for the possibility that he did something statutorially disallowed, yet not immoral. Neither do you have that right. If you don't have that right, then you cannot bestow that right on a third party.

It is immoral for anyone to do what that statute demands. Just like it was immoral to put people in prison for helping freed slaves escape, or for brewing or distilling alcohol in the 1920's.

Mark my words: this statute is helping create the infrastructure for systematic violence that will devour, chew up and spit out [i]all [/i]human beings.

~Sternhauser

[Jesus_lol]

Oddly the people who cry the loudest about "big brother" in other parts of the government are the first to sign their and most importantly other peoples right to privacy away with this kind of thing.

i cant say i envy the people who are gonna get pulled over(even more) for looking mexican in arizona.

[Ephrem Augustine]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='30 April 2010 - 10:11 AM' timestamp='1272640290' post='2102617']
I wouldn't say extreme racism exists. I think racism exists, and its exercise is limited to no color.

[/quote]

But the power and authority is still limited to a color

[Ephrem Augustine]

If every argument or point or challenge to this bill gets dismissed as yelling liberal nonsense, there is no politics just close minded barbarism.

It doesn't seem to make a difference even though most if all undocumented laborers are Catholic, does it?

Edited May 1, 2010 by Ephrem Augustine

[Sternhauser]

"Politics" is war by a different name. Von Clausewitz was close.

~Sternhauser

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' date='30 April 2010 - 08:40 PM' timestamp='1272674411' post='2102916']
It doesn't seem to make a difference even though most if all undocumented laborers are Catholic, does it?
[/quote]
In my opinion, it does not, and this seems to be a slippery slope.
Should the law let Catholics off easy, just for being Catholic? Should non-Catholics/non-Christians be punished more severely than Catholics are for similar crimes? Where does it end?

If you want to enter this country, do it legally.

[Sternhauser]

If you want to escape from slavery, do so legally.

~Sternhauser

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='30 April 2010 - 07:47 PM' timestamp='1272671269' post='2102886']
Oddly the people who cry the loudest about "big brother" in other parts of the government are the first to sign their and most importantly other peoples right to privacy away with this kind of thing.

i cant say i envy the people who are gonna get pulled over(even more) for looking mexican in arizona.
[/quote]

I can't envy the high number of families of murder and rape victims who have to suffer because simple minded emotional illogical appeals are made in favor of an open boarder. An open boarder with a nation that is nearly a Failed State, the drug lords more and more each day rule much of Mexico with violence and murder, and now that violence is pouring over the boarder. But we can't do fix the problem because of many who give into the emotional appeal, and sound bites the people of Arizona cannot enforce basic sovereignty laws.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='30 April 2010 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1272680584' post='2102968']
I can't envy the high number of families of murder and rape victims who have to suffer because simple minded emotional illogical appeals are made in favor of an open boarder. An open boarder with a nation that is nearly a Failed State, the drug lords more and more each day rule much of Mexico with violence and murder, and now that violence is pouring over the boarder. But we can't do fix the problem because of many who give into the emotional appeal, and sound bites the people of Arizona cannot enforce basic sovereignty laws.
[/quote]

Your emotional, illogical arguments would logically take you into the wide world of "born here Americans," in Anacostia, Chicago, and Los Angeles. But you won't let it go there.

Violent crime in 1920's Chicago was committed by gangsters, it's true. It's also true that the crime wasn't eradicated by killing or otherwise directly stopping the gangsters. It was eradicated by legalizing moral and/or non-violent behavior.

As one author pointed out, "You don't see capos from Jim Beam performing a drive by on a liquor store that sells Wild Turkey."

~Sternhauser

Edited May 1, 2010 by Sternhauser

[KnightofChrist]

As a anarchist I know you do not believe in sovereignty, but legalizing cocaine and the other powerful drugs the Murdering Drug Lords sell is only going to make matters worse, coke is not like beer. Arizona has a right to protect her boarders, and since I know you do not believe in the right of the State to exist I shall have to pay little attention to your points of view on this matter.