What Is Protestantism?

[mulls]

What is protestantism?


i know what you're all gonna say, and i know what protestant scholars and theologians would say.



here's what i say:


protestants are nothing except non-catholic christians. that's it.


i'm not proud to be protestant. i don't belong to a denomination, but if i did, i wouldn't be proud to call myself that either.


there's no protestant movement. there's a christian movement.


i don't subscribe to protestant theology.....i subscribe to the bible and God, through Jesus, and the direction of the Holy Spirit.



notice i keep using "I" and not "We"



i thought i'd throw this out there and see where it leads us.

[Brother Adam]

Reformed protestansts are "bible-believing Christians"

Liturgical protestants are those who reject rome as a Church authority.

[the lumberjack]

well then, I guess I'm a reformed liturgical protestant.

wordem up mulls!

no denom, just the God honest truth.

oh my.

[kdewolf2]

[quote]protestants are nothing except non-catholic christians. that's it.[/quote]

Yeah, but what about Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, and Armenian Christians? None of these people are Catholics, but neither are they Protestants, so you're definition is imprecise because it fails to take account of non-Catholic Christians who are not Protestant.

[quote]i don't subscribe to protestant theology.....i subscribe to the bible and God, through Jesus, and the direction of the Holy Spirit.[/quote]

See, that is exactly what makes you a Protestant. All the other Christians subscribe to the authoritative teaching and tradition of an institutional Church, whether it be the Roman Catholic Church, the Greek or Russian Orthodox Churches, or whatever. Protestants, and Protestants alone, believe that all they need is the Bible, and God, Jesus, and the Spirit.

You may claim that you do not subscribe to Protestant theology, but, I'm sorry to say, what you just said is the essence of Protestantism.

[quote]What is protestantism?[/quote]

There are so many different varieties of Protestantism it would be hard to reduce to the movement to any one definition. However, one thing all Protestants share in common is a highly individualistic approach to faith and an insistence that all they need is God and the Bible.


Listen, YOU are a Protestant, whether you like it or not!

[ironmonk]

[b]How Old Is Your Church? [/b]

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year [b]1517[/b].

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year [b]1534[/b], because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to re-marry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year [b]1560[/b].

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in [b]1582[/b].

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in [b]1605[/b].

If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in [b]1628[/b].

If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in [b]1744[/b].

If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in [b]1829[/b].

If you are worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in [b]1865[/b].

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to [b]1879 [/b]as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as "Church of the Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel," "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men [b]within the past one hundred years[/b].

If you are Roman Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year [b]33 [/b]by Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.


"O God, I humbly beseech thee to teach me thy true religion, that leads to everlasting happiness, through Jesus Christ thy Son, our Lord. Amen."




"We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all."
~ Martin Luther, Commentary on St. John


If you go by bible alone, then your religion has came up in the last 30 years.

The bible use to be copied by hand for over 1500 years. It wasn't until a few hundred years after Guttenberg (A Catholic) invented the printing press that the common man could afford a bible. It wasn't until about the last 75 years that the common man could read.

Thank God for the Church that He left us to guide us in all truth (St. Matt 16:18-19). The Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim 3:15). One Faith (Eph 4:5).

The Catholic Church (The Bible)


[b]Ignatius of Antioch[/b] (~50 AD - died at Rome between 98 and 117. )
THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE SMYRAEANS
CHAPTER VIII.--LET NOTHING BE DONE WITHOUT THE BISHOP.

" wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

[b]The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna, Concerning the Martyrdom of St. Polycarp[/b]
The Church of God which sojourns at Smyrna, to the Church of God sojourning in Philomelium, and to all the congregations of the Holy and Catholic Church in every place: Mercy, peace, and love from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, be multiplied.

[b]St. Augustine of Hippo [/b](11/13/354 - 8/28/430 AD) Bishop involved in the Canon of the New Testament.
[b]On Christian Doctrine[/b]
BOOK III
CHAP. 10.--HOW WE ARE TO DISCERN WHETHER A PHRASE IS FIGURATIVE


15.....Now Scripture asserts nothing but the catholic faith


[b]On the Trinity [/b]

BOOK I.
CHAPTER 4.--WHAT THE DOCTRINE OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH IS CONCERNING THE TRINITY.

7..... "I have both glorified it,and will glorify it again;" but that it was a word of the Father only, spoken to the Son; although the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, as they are indivisible, so work indivisibly. This is also my faith, since it is the Catholic faith.

CHAPTER 17.--

....standing on the solid foundation of faith, which the rock signifies, and beholding it from such a safe watch-tower, namely in the Catholic Church, of which it is said, "And upon this rock I will build my Church." For so much the more certainly we love that face of Christ, which we earnestly desire to see, as we recognize in His back parts how much first Christ loved us.

OF THE MORALS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 388 AD
CHAP. 18.--ONLY IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS PERFECT TRUTH ESTABLISHED ON THE HARMONY OF BOTH TESTAMENTS.

33...... But were there in you that love of which we are speaking, or should it ever be in you as much as the greatness of the truth to be known requires, may God vouchsafe to show you that neither is there among the Manichaeans the Christian faith which leads to the summit of wisdom and truth, the attainment of which is the true happy life, nor is it anywhere but in the Catholic teaching.

CHAP. 30.--THE CHURCH APOSTROPHISED AS TEACHER OF ALL WISDOM. DOCTRINE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

...Rightly, then, Catholic Church, most true mother of Christians...

66.....Only the Manichaeans, who make a boast of nothing, should be reminded that the abstinence and continence of the great saints of the Catholic Church has gone so far, that some think it should be checked and recalled within the limits of humanity,--so far above men, even in the judgment of those who disapprove, have their minds soared.

76. [b]My advice to you now is this: that you should at least desist from slandering the Catholic Church, by declaiming against the conduct of men whom the Church herself condemns, seeking daily to correct them as wicked children.[/b] Then, if any of them by good will and by the help of God are corrected, they regain by repentance what they had lost by sin. Those, again, who with wicked will persist in their old vices, or even add to them others still worse, are indeed allowed to remain in the field of the Lord, and to grow along with the good seed; but the time for separating the tares will come. Or if, from their having at least the Christian name, they are to be placed among the chaff rather than among thistles, there will also come One to purge the floor and to separate the chaff from the wheat, and to assign to each part (according to its desert) the due reward.





God Bless,
ironmonk

[dUSt]

I don't think that we are called to Christ as individuals, but as one body.

[mulls]

[quote]Yeah, but what about Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, and Armenian Christians?  None of these people are Catholics, but neither are they Protestants, so you're definition is imprecise because it fails to take account of non-Catholic Christians who are not Protestant.[/quote]


im not talking about them. im talking about protestantism as it applies to me.



[quote]See, that is exactly what makes you a Protestant.  All the other Christians subscribe to the authoritative teaching and tradition of an institutional Church, whether it be the Roman Catholic Church, the Greek or Russian Orthodox Churches, or whatever.  Protestants, and Protestants alone, believe that all they need is the Bible, and God, Jesus, and the Spirit.[/quote]


works for me.


[quote]You may claim that you do not subscribe to Protestant theology, but, I'm sorry to say, what you just said is the essence of Protestantism.[/quote]


oh well. call me what you want. the only label i really like is "Christian."


[quote]There are so many different varieties of Protestantism it would be hard to reduce to the movement to any one definition.  However, one thing all Protestants share in common is a highly individualistic approach to faith and an insistence that all they need is God and the Bible.  [/quote]


see, that's what i'm talking about. i don't have a variety. i'm me, a Christian.


[quote]Listen, YOU are a Protestant, whether you like it or not![/quote]


fine, so long as you realize protestant = Christian.


i don't care about this church or that theology or another variety or denomination or this that and the other plus a bag of doritos and some spicy ortega salsa reverse 360 behind the back windmill loopty loop church service mcgee.


sean loves Jesus. sean is a Christian. maybe that'll be on my tombstone.

[dUSt]

Personally, I like pepperoni on my tombstone.

[mulls]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Apr 13 2004, 04:45 PM'] [b]How Old Is Your Church? [/b]

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year [b]1517[/b].

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year [b]1534[/b], because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to re-marry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year [b]1560[/b].

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in [b]1582[/b].

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in [b]1605[/b].

If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in [b]1628[/b].

If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in [b]1744[/b].

If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in [b]1829[/b].

If you are worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in [b]1865[/b].

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to [b]1879 [/b]as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as "Church of the Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel," "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men [b]within the past one hundred years[/b].

If you are Roman Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year [b]33 [/b]by Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.


[/quote]
thanks monk, it's been about 2 weeks since somebody posted the 'how old is your church thing.' i was going through withdrawal. i almost thought that argument was beat to death. or everyone was getting as sick of it as me.


thanks for keeping it fresh.

[Archangel]

Thanks for the list, ironmonk.

Good thing you kept it short. If you listed all the man-made denominations created since 1517, you'd probably use up all the bandwith.

[Hananiah]

[quote name='mulls' date='Apr 13 2004, 02:22 PM'] i don't subscribe to protestant theology.....i subscribe to the bible and God, through Jesus, and the direction of the Holy Spirit. [/quote]
Do you believe in justification by faith alone? Do you believe that when God judges you he' going to ignore your sins and look only at the perfect righteousness of Christ with which you are clothed? Do you believe you were regenerated in baptism? What do you believe happens during the consecration of the Eucharist? Once you are truly saved, is it possible to apostatize?

[willguy]

[quote]oh well. call me what you want. the only label i really like is "Christian."
[/quote]

Well, that's nice, but I call myself Christian too, so either one of us isn't Christian or you ascribe to Protestant Theology and I ascribe to Catholic Theology.

Something interesting I have noticed:
Many Protestants hate the idea of being labeled as anything other than Christian. They absolutely hate terms like "Protestant" or a denomination name. Catholics (and other Orthodox faiths) have no problem being called Catholic (or their respective name). Its like Protestants are afraid to belong to an organization. They're afraid to look like they may just hold pre-set beliefs instead of forming all of their beliefs themselves. To our separated brethren: Why do you hate being called protestant or non-denominational or whatever?

[CatholicAndFanatical]

I think they fear it because they cant find it in the Bible. They feel that if its not in the Bible then its not right. They have a false thought that God didnt wanta religion, or Church. Even the Jews, God's chosen people, has a religion, Church, with heirarchy and rules, laws and such. Dont see how that has changed.

Little do they realize that the books in the Bible as we know it today was finished around 70AD or so. Alot has taken place since then, and even at the end of Johns gospel it says that not everything Jesus said and done can be found in there. Meaning alot of stuff was passed on through the teachings of the Apostles and their successors in Traditions.

I cant remember how I felt when I was a prot, but it just seems limited and fruitless to limit God to only the Bible. So much more to it. Which is why the Bible itself tells us to listen to the Church, which is evolving and growing, not the Bible, which is only limited to 70AD.

Just my two fitty

[mulls]

[quote name='willguy' date='Apr 13 2004, 05:28 PM'] To our separated brethren: Why do you hate being called protestant or non-denominational or whatever? [/quote]
what do those words truly mean?


baptist.....so what?


pentecostal....so what?


non-denominational (which is becoming a denomination in itself)....so what?




i just don't like the fact that many people that label themselves like this do so because they believe they "have it right" and everyone else doesn't. not all of them think this way, but some of them do.


i just don't want to get lumped into a group of closed minded people who think they have everything figured out. they only group i want to be lumped into is that of "believers."

[ironmonk]

[quote name='mulls' date='Apr 13 2004, 05:55 PM'] thanks monk, it's been about 2 weeks since somebody posted the 'how old is your church thing.' i was going through withdrawal. i almost thought that argument was beat to death. or everyone was getting as sick of it as me.


thanks for keeping it fresh. [/quote]
It's the truth.

There are other people here besides you.


Protestants: Acts 20:30

It's a shame you don't read the bible.

Christian = Catholic = Christian... A Christian follows the Way of Christ. Not the way of luther, knox, calvin, sean.

You really should start in 33 AD with your studies.

protestant = some true believers pulled out of the Catholic Church by false prophets.

Man has no right to change what God made... I'll stick with what God made: The Catholic Church.


Please reply with something good... some history before 1000 AD and some scripture would be nice.

God Bless,
ironmonk