Friends Possibly Becoming A Couple

[tinytherese]

I didn't expect it to happen, but I've grown attracted to a guy friend of mine. When I first met him considering I was still sort of discerning a vocation to the religious life and wasn't looking for a relationship. Time went on and over the past several months I discerned married life and don't think that religious life is for me afterall. (It wasn't as if he came into my life and I decided to throw away the idea of the habit. My decision had to do with plenty of other factors other than him.)

I don't know how he feels about me, other than I know that he respects me as a person. He's a solid Catholic, adores children, we share some similar interests, wants to be a father someday, and there are lots of other positive traits about him, so he has is a good candidate for courtship. It wouldn't be surprising if in the future we would begin courtship. There are just some things that concern me regarding my attraction for him. I know that this just might be me being my usual worrying self, but I'm noticing some negative things regarding our relationship. Spending time with him can be somewhat painful, because I don't know how he feels about me and I'd like us to be more than friends. I'm concerned that unless I get asked out by him that I'll just be waiting around, hanging on his every word wondering if he is going to ask me out already. It might not happen for all I know and I don't want to grow to become really insecure about it, as if there is something wrong with me that he's just not interested. (I've been experiencing this already. I've been trying to manage it, telling myself that maybe he just isn't interested, is undecided, or is just nervous to make a move, so if he doesn't have the guts to do it then do I really want to be with a wimp?)

I haven't felt insecure like this when it comes to a possible romantic relationship in a really long time. I've grown to just be the type who has believed that if he doesn't see how valuable you are and is too chicken to make a move then forget him. I definitely hold the traditional view that the woman is the valuable prize worth pursuing with dignity and the man is to pursue her, so it isn't as if I would just tell him how I feel. That would show just how insecure I am. I've left him some hints, but no offence to the men on here, but I definitely see why some women call men dense now. Most of the time he just ignores them. Heck, sometimes he doesn't even respond at all! I've just noticed that the fruit that has come from this has been me becoming more insecure, though perhaps I'm just being impatient with him. It's really getting to me and I'm not sure how to handle it.

[Nihil Obstat]

Being the way I am, I feel obligated to offer the most obvious, most direct, and probably most difficult course of action. Just ask him. Sit down for a serious (friendly serious....... deep would be a better word) discussion, explain where you're coming from, and ask what he thinks. It may be exactly the same, may be completely different. Either way, knowing is better than wondering for the rest of your life.

Of course I'm fully willing to admit that I've not been able to take my own advice on more than one occasion. On the other hand, I did take my advice a few times too. It's not easy, that's for sure.

The moral of the story is that guys really are dense, so you sort of have to tie them up and hit them over the head until they understand. Metaphorically usually, but I wouldn't rule out literally either.

[jeffpugh]

Yeah, like does he know you're available? Hah. That could be part of the problem, too.

[Slappo]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='20 April 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1271799614' post='2096966']
I didn't expect it to happen, but I've grown attracted to a guy friend of mine. When I first met him considering I was still sort of discerning a vocation to the religious life and wasn't looking for a relationship. Time went on and over the past several months I discerned married life and don't think that religious life is for me afterall. (It wasn't as if he came into my life and I decided to throw away the idea of the habit. My decision had to do with plenty of other factors other than him.)

I don't know how he feels about me, other than I know that he respects me as a person. He's a solid Catholic, adores children, we share some similar interests, wants to be a father someday, and there are lots of other positive traits about him, so he has is a good candidate for courtship. It wouldn't be surprising if in the future we would begin courtship. There are just some things that concern me regarding my attraction for him. I know that this just might be me being my usual worrying self, but I'm noticing some negative things regarding our relationship. Spending time with him can be somewhat painful, because I don't know how he feels about me and I'd like us to be more than friends. I'm concerned that unless I get asked out by him that I'll just be waiting around, hanging on his every word wondering if he is going to ask me out already. It might not happen for all I know and I don't want to grow to become really insecure about it, as if there is something wrong with me that he's just not interested. (I've been experiencing this already. I've been trying to manage it, telling myself that maybe he just isn't interested, is undecided, or is just nervous to make a move, so if he doesn't have the guts to do it then do I really want to be with a wimp?)

I haven't felt insecure like this when it comes to a possible romantic relationship in a really long time. I've grown to just be the type who has believed that if he doesn't see how valuable you are and is too chicken to make a move then forget him. I definitely hold the traditional view that the woman is the valuable prize worth pursuing with dignity and the man is to pursue her, so it isn't as if I would just tell him how I feel. That would show just how insecure I am. [b]I've left him some hints[/b], but no offence to the men on here, but I definitely see why some women call men dense now. Most of the time he just ignores them. Heck, sometimes he doesn't even respond at all! I've just noticed that the fruit that has come from this has been me becoming more insecure, though perhaps I'm just being impatient with him. It's really getting to me and I'm not sure how to handle it.
[/quote]


Guys don't need hints. They need big huge poster board signs, power point projects, and loud speakers.

It's really hard to give a modest sign to a guy while keeping the "he's supposed to pursue me" ideology. I feel your pain. The best way you can do this is make absolutely 100% sure that he knows that you are available and open to the idea of a relationship. If you actually blatantly say you're interested in him it isn't much of a he pursues you type thing. Other things you can do are give compliments that are positive towards the time you spend with him. "I've really enjoyed hanging out with you lately." "You're a really solid man and I like that a lot about you." Things like this show him that you like his qualities, but still leave it hanging in the air as to whether or not you are attracted to him.

Hope this helps.


As a guy I was able to give wild and crazy signs to my fiancee . I took a bunch of clips from Bambi where Flower first sees and then gets kissed by the lady skunk, molded them into a collage, and put it as the background on her laptop after fixing it for her.

[tinytherese]

He knows I'm available and I know that he is too. He had a realy serious relationship less than a year ago that he thought that she was his future wife. Then she just out of the bleu announced that she was entering a convent. Hmm, perhaps he hasn't gotten over that experience yet. He doesn't seem as confident as he could be.

[Cherie]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='20 April 2010 - 07:19 PM' timestamp='1271805549' post='2097049']
He knows I'm available and I know that he is too. He had a realy serious relationship less than a year ago that he thought that she was his future wife. Then she just out of the bleu announced that she was entering a convent. Hmm, perhaps he hasn't gotten over that experience yet. He doesn't seem as confident as he could be.
[/quote]

That could be the case, that he's cautious because of what happened to him. That would make anyone a bit wary about getting into another relationship, so even if he IS a bit "nervous" about pursuing you, I wouldn't chalk it up to wimpiness just yet.

I think Slappo is right - goodness, guys really [i]don't[/i] take girls' hints ... they truly need some pretty OBVIOUS "poster-board" signs!!! It doesn't mean they're too chicken ... it just means they really DON'T get it, sometimes. Girls are often waaaay too subtle for guys.

One thing I would suggest is honestly to pray about it. Really pray - pray to St. Joseph, or to St. Raphael (my personal favorite, since he brought my husband and I together!) If God means for you to be together, then praying about it and for it is the best thing you can do!

I would also agree with Nihil's advice, although it might be difficult - sitting him down and reasonably telling him what's going on with you doesn't mean that you're "pursuing" him at all ... after all, the ball would be in HIS court then. All you're doing is being honest, and it will truly make you feel much better. That way you both will know where one another stands ... and that will give you so much peace of mind.

And keep praying. God will guide you! Trust in Him, and have courage.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' date='20 April 2010 - 05:50 PM' timestamp='1271803809' post='2097020']
Yeah, like does he know you're available? Hah. That could be part of the problem, too.
[/quote]

Men are dense. They just are. Women's minds are a mystery to them. It's not because they are not wonderful people. It's just this Y chromosome thing.

I can understand you wanting a man to take the lead in showing interest in you. But, over the years, I've started to become suspicious of men like this. If a man is TOO secure and has all the moves right, maybe he has had TOO much practice. And, "self-confidence" can also mean arrogance.

I've found that nice guys tend to move slowly. (I assume you want a nice guy--not every woman does.) It's partly because they are insecure. But, it's partly because they respect you. They don't want to push you into something you don't want. And, they're kind of shy. Plus, if the guy was hurt recently, he may be a little gun shy. Or he may not trust his own instincts, because he THOUGHT the other woman was interested in him, but she pursued a vocation instead.

Speaking of vocations, SMM brings up an important point. Since it hasn't been THAT long since you've been discerning a religious vocation, your friend may not know for sure if you're really ready to date, even if you've talked about wanting marriage and a family. (I know, that makes no sense--but he still might not know for sure.) Also, your friend might think that a great woman like you wouldn't be interested in him. That's not a bad thing--humility in a guy is not a bad trait at all.

Two possibilities come to mind immediately--First one: Do what Nihil suggests. It would be my natural tendency to do this, and just blurt it out and talk about it. However, it can also be uncomfortable, and there is a chance of feeling like an idiot and wanting to fall through the floor when the other person says, "I just don't think about you that way." Ouch.

The other option is more indirect. You say you've left him some hints. Obviously they have been too subtle. First off, maybe dress a little differently, wear a little perfume, do your hair differently. Sometimes guys have to be hit over the head that, "Hey, you're a girl." Uh, duh.

Then, every once in awhile touch him. I'm not talking sexual touching. Just touch him on the arm a few times when you talk or touch him on the shoulder. Or, if it seems appropriate, rub his arm a little. Every woman has her own style--these are the types of touching that come naturally to me. They are probably different for other women. Then, if you feel a little more bold sometime, take his arm when you cross a street, then take your arm away. After doing this, if the guy doesn't touch you back you may have to take Nihil's approach and just ask him. In some cases it means he's just not interested. But, in a lot of cases, the guy just needs an obvious sign that the thought of kissing him doesn't make you feel like throwing up.

I'm not suggesting that you break your personal rule that the guy should do the pursuing. Just bend it a little, so the guy knows that the pursuit won't make him feel like an idiot.

Slappo's advice that you give him compliments and tell him that you enjoy being with him is good advice. Then, when appropriate, turn the compliments a little toward his appearance--that you like his hair, or his shirt, or something.

Flirting is an art, and not everyone is good at it. But, if you can, flirt a little. Then, take a chance and maybe flirt a little harder.

If he still isn't getting the message, I don't know what to recommend. Maybe the seminary.

Personally, I've sometimes just leaned over and kissed the guy. (Not a deep french kiss, just a kiss.) Many times the result is very nice. The downside is that sometimes you get the "I don't think of you that way" response. Either way, it gets the conversation started.

Good luck. I don't know why I'm giving advice because I hate dating. I dated a lot after my divorce and I hate it. I hate it so much I've given up. If God wants me to have a man he is going to have to have the guy hit my car or fall through my front window or something.

But, I am older than you.

So, go for it.

BTW--The very best kind of relationship is when you are friends first. Then you know that you have things in common and enjoy each other's company, and that's it's not just physical attraction or a "crush."

Edited April 21, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='CherieMadame' date='20 April 2010 - 06:34 PM' timestamp='1271806496' post='2097057']

I would also agree with Nihil's advice, although it might be difficult - sitting him down and reasonably telling him what's going on with you doesn't mean that you're "pursuing" him at all ... after all, the ball would be in HIS court then. All you're doing is being honest, and it will truly make you feel much better. That way you both will know where one another stands ... and that will give you so much peace of mind.

[/quote]
Oh yea, that's the other thing I forgot to mention. If you take my advice, you shift 100% of the pressure off you onto him. It basically forces him to deal with it.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='20 April 2010 - 04:56 PM' timestamp='1271807770' post='2097068']
Oh yea, that's the other thing I forgot to mention. If you take my advice, you shift 100% of the pressure off you onto him. It basically forces him to deal with it.
[/quote]

Although personally I do find your approach quite forward for a woman who is seeking to be more passive.

None of the hundreds of girls that have liked me have ever been that forward. Hundreds I tell you.























Ok... so hundreds-hundreds+5=a few...

[missionseeker]

The only thing that I would caution you about, T, is that right now you are a very vulnerable point. Not saying you shouldn't go for it, just saying be careful.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='missionseeker' date='21 April 2010 - 12:21 AM' timestamp='1271827308' post='2097214']
The only thing that I would caution you about, T, is that right now you are a very vulnerable point. Not saying you shouldn't go for it, just saying be careful.
[/quote]

I've thought about that too. I have been improving and this might just be sorted out more slowly because of my situation. He has helped me significantly during this time though.

Oh and thank you everyone for your advice. I'll definitely pray about this. After that I don't know.

[CatherineM]

The healthier you get, the more drawn to healthy people you will become.

[Archaeology cat]

I can understand what you're saying. I liked my husband for a long time before we started dating, but I didn't say anything. I was at his place a lot, but I was friends with most of his roommates, so that alone wouldn't give a strong hint. (Oh, and he still doesn't get hints ). It took me graduating and facing the prospect of not seeing him for me to get a bit bolder. I didn't come right out and say "hey, I like you, do you like me?", but I started emailing him more and just talking to him more and taking more of an interest in what he did. That started in December (I graduated mid-year), and I visited the university a couple of times during the spring semester, and that April we started officially dating. So, my point, I guess, is that I had to step out of my comfort zone and take a chance and be a bit bolder, but I still allowed him to be the one to ask me out.

[Domine ut Videam]

While I too hold the belief that the man should be the one to broach the topic of moving beyond platonic friendship it often doesn't happen. In these circumstance (which I've discovered since going to an orthodox Catholic college, are far too common) there is only one solution:

it is time to have a DTR

Almost all of the girls in my group of friends have had to do this once or twice. DTR stands for [b]D[/b]efine [b]T[/b]he [b]R[/b]elationship. Sometimes in guy girl friendships the line becomes blurred or we (the women) simply don't know/can't discern his intentions. In these circumstances a DTR is necessary. Essentially, a DTR is a stating of intentions by both parties: What is this? Where do you see this relationship going? Are we friends? More than friends? Do you see this developing into courtship? It is not so much a declaration of one parties feelings but a clarification of what is going on and what the future expectations of the relationship hold. I concur with most all of the advice given but wanted to throw in the fun acronym.

Good luck and let us know how it goes! I'll be praying!

Edited April 22, 2010 by Domine ut Videam

[jeffpugh]

Is it an acronym if it doesn't say a word? Like LASER is an acronym because you can say it

Edited April 22, 2010 by Sacred Music Man