Human Sexuallity

[BibleReader]

I have to say I agree with pretty much everything written in this thread, however, I have a Devil's Advocate sort of question. Something I've never really got around to rationalizing.

What about the people who are raised in a way that demoralizes homosexuality to an astonishing extent, and they themselves have a hatred towards gays, yet they themselves are gay? It is a rare condition, but an existing one. These people often horrid emotional issues because of their conflicts, and fear of family play into it also. Just wondering what anyone's take is on it.

[CatherineM]

My take on that is Alex Keating. He's the character that Michael J. Fox played on TV. He was an avid Republican and his parents were former hippie types. Kids often go to extremes to not be like their parents, or to oppose their parents beliefs. When it is political or religious, we say that kids will be kids, and they like to rebel. When it is sexual, we have different names for it, all nasty.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='20 April 2010 - 09:02 AM' timestamp='1271772143' post='2096744']
do you think that "having a proclivity toward being attracted to the same sex" is only defined by the word homosexual?
[/quote]

The meaning of your question is unclear to me. I'm going to presume to reword it to say, "Is 'homosexual' the only word for anyone who has any attraction to the same sex?" Constant thoughts about and attraction toward the same sex are probably a decent indicator of homosexuality.

~Sternhauser

[Formosus]

[quote name='BibleReader' date='20 April 2010 - 07:31 PM' timestamp='1271802673' post='2097000']
I have to say I agree with pretty much everything written in this thread, however, I have a Devil's Advocate sort of question. Something I've never really got around to rationalizing.

What about the people who are raised in a way that demoralizes homosexuality to an astonishing extent, and they themselves have a hatred towards gays, yet they themselves are gay? It is a rare condition, but an existing one. These people often horrid emotional issues because of their conflicts, and fear of family play into it also. Just wondering what anyone's take is on it.
[/quote]


Its my (somewhat informed) opinion that SSA is caused by a variety of genetic,pre-natal, and post natal environmental factors. I think it would be impossible to identify any one cause to SSA(same sex attraction).
I always considered "homosexuality" to refer to those cases where the person is almost solely attracted to the same sex. The extreme of the bell curve as CatherineM stated.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Formosus

[JustJump]

Psychologically, sexuality is represented on a continuum from 0 to 6, where 3 is the middle ground ("bisexual"). Six is homosexual, and it's estimated to be about 8% of the population. The problem I have with my psych test book is that I'm not really sure how they define homosexuality. The labels on the continuum say things like "exclusively heterosexual behavoir", "predominantly heterosexual, only incidental homosexual behavior". Really from what I can gather these tests only seem to work if the participants are willing to be truthful. I also feel like a lot of them only count acting on the feelings. But I'm not sure what is considered behavoir or acting. I feel like it's normal for people to at some point have some mild attraction to someone of the same sex. I don't agree that people should act on it. I don't believe that anyone can be completely homosexual...I feel like it's normal to want to reproduce; something you obviously can't do in a same sex relationship.

personal blurb: My friend got dumped in high school by his girlfriend of almost two years for her best friend, a girl. His girlfriend had never thought of herself as gay, but her friend was bisexual (now a lesbian). His gf was extremely confused when the whole incident started, because she was so close to the girl. They had shared a kiss at a sleep over, and it greatly confused her. I feel that she is gay now simply because of the confused feeling she felt, and the need to be defined.

I think that a lot of the confusion has to do with the way love has been twisted. People think that if they feel a strong connection, friendship, and love with someone of the same sex they must be gay. Mainly if this occurs with the slightest bit of sexual attraction. And our society does pressure us to define ourselves and to be okay with being homosexual and acting upon it.

It all comes down to not knowing what true love is. Never being close to anyone, not knowing what a true friendship, and a true relationship is a commonplace problem. Love is unconditional. We should love everyone: our friends, our family, our selves, God, our foes, the stranger on the street. And we should love them all equally, that's what we strive for as followers of Christ.

(Of course you don't go makeout with everyone you love, that is saved for that special person of the opposite sex you want to start a family with and is compatible with you)

Edited April 21, 2010 by JustJump

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='20 April 2010 - 06:56 PM' timestamp='1271807791' post='2097069']
The meaning of your question is unclear to me. I'm going to presume to reword it to say, "Is 'homosexual' the only word for anyone who has any attraction to the same sex?" Constant thoughts about and attraction toward the same sex are probably a decent indicator of homosexuality.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

ok...i agree with you...having sexual attractions towards the same sex is an indicator of homosexuality. but when defining someones sexual identity...should we lable them as homosexual? because like a lot of people are saying on this thread...peoples attractions fall along this thing known as a "bell curve". and also you have to consider other emotions in the equation as well.

i think there are more factors than just sexual feelings involved. you have to consider emotional connections, romantic feelings, and love as well.

so really what i was getting at...is how one should identify ones self and how should society identify an individual...who is same sex attraction positive. should we immediatly jump to the conclusion that the person is homosexual? or should we consider the possiblity that they may have attractions/feelings towards the opposite sex as well?

i hope you see where i am going with this...

[God Conquers]

[quote]so really what i was getting at...is how one should identify ones self and how should society identify an individual.[/quote]


This is how you should identify yourself:

First Name, Baptismal Name, Last Name.




WHy pigeonhole yourself or anyone else? Especially if there are struggles there in the first place. DOn't put yourself inside or outside any boxes. Or closets.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JustJump' date='21 April 2010 - 12:18 AM' timestamp='1271819890' post='2097161']
Psychologically, sexuality is represented on a continuum from 0 to 6, where 3 is the middle ground ("bisexual"). Six is homosexual, and it's estimated to be about 8% of the population. The problem I have with my psych test book is that I'm not really sure how they define homosexuality. The labels on the continuum say things like "exclusively heterosexual behavoir", "predominantly heterosexual, only incidental homosexual behavior". Really from what I can gather these tests only seem to work if the participants are willing to be truthful. I also feel like a lot of them only count acting on the feelings. But I'm not sure what is considered behavoir or acting. I feel like it's normal for people to at some point have some mild attraction to someone of the same sex. I don't agree that people should act on it. I don't believe that anyone can be completely homosexual...I feel like it's normal to want to reproduce; something you obviously can't do in a same sex relationship.


I think that a lot of the confusion has to do with the way love has been twisted. People think that if they feel a strong connection, friendship, and love with someone of the same sex they must be gay. Mainly if this occurs with the slightest bit of sexual attraction. And our society does pressure us to define ourselves and to be okay with being homosexual and acting upon it.

It all comes down to not knowing what true love is. Never being close to anyone, not knowing what a true friendship, and a true relationship is a commonplace problem. Love is unconditional. We should love everyone: our friends, our family, our selves, God, our foes, the stranger on the street. And we should love them all equally, that's what we strive for as followers of Christ.


[/quote]
That is a real stretch for your estimate, 1-2 % is far more accurate.
I think you are correct about the confusion between love, lust and friendship. With half the population divorced, many living in sin - most people have never been a part or even seen a stable family relationship as an example how to conduct their lives.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='21 April 2010 - 01:02 AM' timestamp='1271829743' post='2097234']
This is how you should identify yourself:

First Name, Baptismal Name, Last Name.




WHy pigeonhole yourself or anyone else? Especially if there are struggles there in the first place. DOn't put yourself inside or outside any boxes. Or closets.
[/quote]

you are right...unfortunately society behaves otherwise. so how should leaders influence society in these areas?

i think it becomes difficult because so many people define themselves in different ways...

for example, Obama identifies himself as half black and half white. whereas, other people who are half african and half caucasian identify theirselves as black. why is that? possibly because society tells them that they are black. i was reading an article the other day about this young adult female who identified herself as black even though one of her parents was 100% caucasian. her reasoning behind that was...if she had existed 150+ years ago in the states she would have been a slave. i think people who consider themselves multiracial have felt the freedom to be proud and embrace all parts of their heritage. its possible that with some multiracial people, they never felt that freedom and assume an identity that they feel is more acceptable within society.

[Laudate_Dominum]

infinitelord1!


It is good to see you around again! Peace and long life my friend.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='21 April 2010 - 03:22 AM' timestamp='1271838169' post='2097244']
infinitelord1!


It is good to see you around again! Peace and long life my friend.
[/quote]


thanks guy. good to see you too. ive been more active on the forum over the last few months. hope all is well!

[Anomaly]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='21 April 2010 - 02:45 AM' timestamp='1271828741' post='2097224']
ok...i agree with you...having sexual attractions towards the same sex is an indicator of homosexuality. but when defining someones sexual identity...should we lable them as homosexual? because like a lot of people are saying on this thread...peoples attractions fall along this thing known as a "bell curve". and also you have to consider other emotions in the equation as well.

i think there are more factors than just sexual feelings involved. you have to consider emotional connections, romantic feelings, and love as well.

so really what i was getting at...is how one should identify ones self and how should society identify an individual...who is same sex attraction positive. should we immediatly jump to the conclusion that the person is homosexual? or should we consider the possiblity that they may have attractions/feelings towards the opposite sex as well?

i hope you see where i am going with this...
[/quote]You are making a huge mistake asking people on this forum to help 'define' you. 1-You define yourself according to your conscience and understanding. They aren't in your head and heart and there is only so much you can convey by typing. 2-Everybody has opinions, some are experienced, educated, or thoughtfull. Others may be immature, thoughtless. Understand whay you are getting from people here. 3-Ask your thearapist about this truism "What other people think of you is none of your business."

You've been struggling with this for years here at phatmass. It hasn't done anything significantly helpful for you. Stop exposing yourself to needless hurt when there is little chance of benefit for you. Stick with the thearapist and real-life people because your troubles are fundamentally about inter-relations, secondly about sexuality.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='21 April 2010 - 05:42 AM' timestamp='1271842961' post='2097250']
thanks guy. good to see you too. ive been more active on the forum over the last few months. hope all is well!
[/quote]
Thanks bro! All is pretty decent. Is it true that you're deployed!? When do you come back? Not to hijack ur thread or anything. lawl. About the thread, I tend to agree with Anomaly, I know I would never presume to define you, even if I knew you really well in RL. Well, I might say that you're a child of God and you have transcendent dignity but this wouldn't be a definition per se. You're cool. There.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Anomaly' date='21 April 2010 - 06:27 AM' timestamp='1271849230' post='2097269']
You are making a huge mistake asking people on this forum to help 'define' you. 1-You define yourself according to your conscience and understanding. They aren't in your head and heart and there is only so much you can convey by typing. 2-Everybody has opinions, some are experienced, educated, or thoughtfull. Others may be immature, thoughtless. Understand whay you are getting from people here. 3-Ask your thearapist about this truism "What other people think of you is none of your business."

You've been struggling with this for years here at phatmass. It hasn't done anything significantly helpful for you. Stop exposing yourself to needless hurt when there is little chance of benefit for you. Stick with the thearapist and real-life people because your troubles are fundamentally about inter-relations, secondly about sexuality.
[/quote]

maybe this is a big mistake by doing this. while at the same time it may be helpful for others to see that it is possible to experience shifts in your attractions if you experience Same Sex Attraction. I will say that my struggle hasnt been as severe since seeking out therapy and other things that have helped me to overcome fears in my life.

Anyways, one thing i wanted to start getting into in this thread was how society can play a role in people self-idenifying themselves, and also how society can start taking a role that may even help people to experience shifts, in their attractions, towards the opposite sex (assuming they might have some level of same sex attraction).

I want to give this thread a little more time...and see how many more opinions we can get on the subject matter.

Edited April 21, 2010 by infinitelord1

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='21 April 2010 - 06:37 AM' timestamp='1271849854' post='2097271']
Thanks bro! All is pretty decent. Is it true that you're deployed!? When do you come back? Not to hijack ur thread or anything. lawl. About the thread, I tend to agree with Anomaly, I know I would never presume to define you, even if I knew you really well in RL. Well, I might say that you're a child of God and you have transcendent dignity but this wouldn't be a definition per se. You're cool. There.
[/quote]

thanks. hey i wish i could go into detail about my deployment but im not supposed to. ill be back soon enough though.