Ohio Poor Clares Move To Nc

[Buckeye]

I just joined this forum today. I read with interest the information posted about the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration moving from Portsmouth, Ohio (in the Diocese of Columbus) to North Carolina. On this forum someone said that the Poor Clares were not able to get a chaplain in Ohio. That is completely false. They WERE indeed given chaplains by the bishops of Columbus, very holy priests I might add, over the years. Someone donated a large plot of land to them. They had only 3 or 4 professed nuns. Apparently some people are blaming that and their lack of vocations on the fact that they did not get a new convent and a lot of monetary support. I prayed for them every day. Then our bishop came down with some serious medical problems (he had a heart attack, cancer, and had a part of one of his legs amputated). A healthy bishop in NC apparently was working on getting the nuns to leave the diocese of Columbus when the bishop of Columbus was incapacitated. That hardly seems proper. The Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration came to Portsmouth from elsewhere in Ohio and had been there for over 50 years when they took off for NC. What is lacking today in society and indeed even in the church is the virtues of fidelity and loyalty. You see marriages breaking up, nuns and priests leaving their callings, and nuns like this abandoning the diocese they have served for half a century. If the PCPA order has so many nuns in Alabama and the monastery there is bursting at the seams, why didn't THEY send a few nuns to NC? There is really something unusual about this whole process. I do think it is improper for one bishop to recruit nuns from another bishop's diocese. Maybe the nuns in Portsmouth Ohio should try to figure out why they didn't have sufficient vocations. Was it only the circumstances in Ohio (e.g., their convent, the noise from the school next door, the lack of financial support) could it perhaps have been due to something the nuns themselves were or were not doing? if so, those problems will follow them to NC. It is getting really bewildering to see all the reports from all over the world about lack of fidelity to vocations and commitments and the lack of loyalty to the Pope, etc. Now a post on this forum says the elderly nuns from the Portsmouth monastery who are too infirm to go to NC have been "left behind" in a nursing home for priests and nuns in Columbus. I cannot believe that Rome allowed all this to go on.

[Totus Tuus]

With all due respect, you are aware that the Portsmouth nuns are not the only PCPA's in Ohio, right? They were one of three different Ohio PCPA communities. They are also very cramped in the location they now occupy.

And furthermore, I just need to say this -- as a former member of the Alabama community I can say that you are being presumptuous in saying that AL can just send a few sisters over to NC right now. God calls different communities to different things.

I understand if you feel you need to rant; we all do sometimes. But letting off steam might just be sowing seeds of discontent among the Catholic faithful if you don't know/don't reveal the whole truth in what you say. God bless.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Totus Tuus

[zunshynn]

[quote name='Buckeye' date='18 April 2010 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1271652665' post='2095978']
I just joined this forum today. I read with interest the information posted about the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration moving from Portsmouth, Ohio (in the Diocese of Columbus) to North Carolina. On this forum someone said that the Poor Clares were not able to get a chaplain in Ohio. That is completely false. They WERE indeed given chaplains by the bishops of Columbus, very holy priests I might add, over the years. Someone donated a large plot of land to them. They had only 3 or 4 professed nuns. Apparently some people are blaming that and their lack of vocations on the fact that they did not get a new convent and a lot of monetary support. I prayed for them every day. Then our bishop came down with some serious medical problems (he had a heart attack, cancer, and had a part of one of his legs amputated). A healthy bishop in NC apparently was working on getting the nuns to leave the diocese of Columbus when the bishop of Columbus was incapacitated. That hardly seems proper. The Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration came to Portsmouth from elsewhere in Ohio and had been there for over 50 years when they took off for NC. What is lacking today in society and indeed even in the church is the virtues of fidelity and loyalty. You see marriages breaking up, nuns and priests leaving their callings, and nuns like this abandoning the diocese they have served for half a century. If the PCPA order has so many nuns in Alabama and the monastery there is bursting at the seams, why didn't THEY send a few nuns to NC? There is really something unusual about this whole process. I do think it is improper for one bishop to recruit nuns from another bishop's diocese. Maybe the nuns in Portsmouth Ohio should try to figure out why they didn't have sufficient vocations. Was it only the circumstances in Ohio (e.g., their convent, the noise from the school next door, the lack of financial support) could it perhaps have been due to something the nuns themselves were or were not doing? if so, those problems will follow them to NC. It is getting really bewildering to see all the reports from all over the world about lack of fidelity to vocations and commitments and the lack of loyalty to the Pope, etc. Now a post on this forum says the elderly nuns from the Portsmouth monastery who are too infirm to go to NC have been "left behind" in a nursing home for priests and nuns in Columbus. I cannot believe that Rome allowed all this to go on.
[/quote]

I realize that they did have some very holy chaplains while they were there. However, there was a very real possibility that they would not continue to be able to have a chaplain. I know this for a fact.

And I don't know if you read the whole post about the sisters in the nursing home. That is a temporary situation, and if they had stayed where they were in Portsmouth, those sisters would have been likely to be in the nursing home where they were at much longer than they would probably have been if they hadn't moved.

The PCPA nuns in Alabama don't have enough sisters currently to start a new foundation. And as Totus Tuus pointed out, there are two other PCPA monasteries in the state of Ohio, as well as other Poor Clares and other contemplative orders. North Carolina had none.

Every monastery is ultimately going to have to answer to God for any failures on their part that caused them to not get/keep holy, faithful vocations. But I think they, along with their bishop and the holy see are better able to discern what actions were appropriate for them to take, and where the Holy Spirit might be leading them than you or I probably are.

Edited April 19, 2010 by zunshynn

[Formosus]

You know I think I saw them the other week when my friend asked me to go to the TLM with him. I beleive they have set up shop near St. Anne's parish in Charlotte, NC. Are these the Poor Claires you are talking about?

[Buckeye]

I am really quite surprised about what you said about the Alabama nuns not having enough nuns to send to other places for at least two reasons. Only a short while back (within the last 3 years I think), the Alabama monastery sent a group to the Phoenix diocese. Also, on EWTN it is often mentioned that the group in Hanceville, where Mother Angelica is, has ample new recruits. Maybe, many do not remain in the convent. I was just concerned that things were said that were not accurate...like the comment about not having a chaplain in Portsmouth. The fact that there are PCPA monasteries in two other dioceses in Ohio is not relevant to the diocese of Columbus. As compared to the state of NC, Ohio has many, many more Catholics and overall many more people. So it would stand to reason that there being more religious in a state with a large number of Catholics would be completely plausible. I KNOW that the Bishop of Columbus supported the PCPA nuna in the diocese and so did his predecessors. And MANY people in the diocese prayed for them intensely. At this time, money is a problem all over this country and mentioning lack of monetary support as a reason why they left therefore seems kind of sad. Finally, if any group of nuns or religious doesn't wish to remain in a particular place, I suppose it is better that they move on and go to a place where they think they will be happier. All I was saying is that the post that was placed on this forum seemed to emphasize the shortcomings of Ohio and the Diocese of Columbus and, by inference its Bishops and clergy. I hope that the nuns are looking at the possibility that perhaps there were reasons within their own order that they were not succeding in the Columbus Diocese. We need to support our bishops and clergy and pope and not blame them for everything going awry in the Church.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Buckeye' date='19 April 2010 - 03:29 PM' timestamp='1271705356' post='2096306']
I am really quite surprised about what you said about the Alabama nuns not having enough nuns to send to other places for at least two reasons. Only a short while back (within the last 3 years I think), the Alabama monastery sent a group to the Phoenix diocese. Also, on EWTN it is often mentioned that the group in Hanceville, where Mother Angelica is, has ample new recruits. Maybe, many do not remain in the convent. I was just concerned that things were said that were not accurate...like the comment about not having a chaplain in Portsmouth. The fact that there are PCPA monasteries in two other dioceses in Ohio is not relevant to the diocese of Columbus. As compared to the state of NC, Ohio has many, many more Catholics and overall many more people. So it would stand to reason that there being more religious in a state with a large number of Catholics would be completely plausible. I KNOW that the Bishop of Columbus supported the PCPA nuna in the diocese and so did his predecessors. And MANY people in the diocese prayed for them intensely. At this time, money is a problem all over this country and mentioning lack of monetary support as a reason why they left therefore seems kind of sad. Finally, if any group of nuns or religious doesn't wish to remain in a particular place, I suppose it is better that they move on and go to a place where they think they will be happier. All I was saying is that the post that was placed on this forum seemed to emphasize the shortcomings of Ohio and the Diocese of Columbus and, by inference its Bishops and clergy. I hope that the nuns are looking at the possibility that perhaps there were reasons within their own order that they were not succeding in the Columbus Diocese. We need to support our bishops and clergy and pope and not blame them for everything going awry in the Church.
[/quote]

-The Alabama sisters are unable to start a new foundation at this time. That is a fact.
-As Zunshynn said, North Carolina does [i]not have any contemplative religious at all[/i].

I can understand you trying to defend the Diocese of Columbus. I was not aware that it had come under any kind of attack, and I have never read anything of the sort from a PCPA source. If that is the case, however, it is sad. But surely a very wholesome motivation exists in the fact that the PCPAs are bringing religious life to a state that did not have it at all. All three girls in the dorm room next to mine are Catholics from North Carolina -- there is a need for the faithful to have the witness of women in religious in their state, regardless of any other factors that may or may not have influenced the decision.

It might be good to post what viewpoints you found on this board to which you were replying here, so we can have a better idea about what your contention is. It is very true that being unsuccessful in growing their community may have been due to shortcomings within the community itself, and that the diocese is not to blame. However, considering the fact that the ordinary faithful know very little of what occurred in either, I think the best approach would be not to judge the situation at all, because quite honestly I don't know one person here who has enough information to do so.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Totus Tuus

[Formosus]

There is a great need for religious sisters in North Carolina. I am aware only of one other order (the Sisters of Mercy....) in the state. The Poor Claire nuns are especially important to the overall growth of the Church in Charlotte and to the growth of the "Renewal of the Renewal" since they have set up shop next to one of the most liturgically sound parishes in the state. I am fairly certain Ohio has plenty of religious in it. The south is an area where Catholicism is growing quickly and we need the example of dedicated religious men and women down here. I can understand why someone would be upset to lose such devout sisters in their area, but I think you should keep in mind that perhaps other parts of the Church need them as well. I can only assume that the Holy Spirit has moved them to come to Charlotte for the benefit not only of Charlotte, but the Universal Church.


EDIT

There are no contemplative women's orders in NC. There is one men's benedictine monastery but it is not a strictly cloistered community as they interact with the local populace. So I guess in the sense that there are no strictly cloistered religious in NC, that is true. Though I met a Byzantine seminarian up in Raleigh who is trying to start a monastery if there is anyone interested in bringing more contemplative groups to NC : p

Edited April 19, 2010 by Formosus

[Buckeye]

Actually, in fact, I was replying to the ORIGINAL post that highlighted the reasons that person saw as the cause of the relocation of these nuns to NC. What was emphasized in the ORIGINAL post was that there was not enough space in the convent for the 4 nuns and that there was little or no support to build a new monastery on a large piece of land in central Ohio - donated land in fact. In addition, the ORIGINAL post stated that the nuns did not have sufficient service from chaplains. They had Father Jospeh Klee in recent years and prior to his being there, Father Patterson (RIP). These are two of the most holy and sincere priests of the diocese of Columbus. Therefore, they had wonderful chaplains. Bishop Griffin (emeritus) and Bishop Campbell (currently in office) gave wonderful chaplains to the nuns. In addition, the nuns' newsletter was replete with photos of numerous priests who would stop by from other dioceses and even fairly frequent visits from teh MFVA friars from EWTN in Alabama. So I was only trying to correct the record by providing the facts that have been very publicly known in the diocese. These things were even publicized by the nuns themselves on their website and in their newsletters. As far as dioceses that need religious, I noted several (at least 7-8) orders of sisters/nuns in the diocese of Charlotte listed on the diocese's website as being within the diocese. This seems possibly even more communities than there are in the diocese of Columbus even though, as you mention, Ohio has a much larger proportion of Catholics. Portsmouth, Ohio is near Kentucky and the Ohio River and very low in Catholics and what a wonderful thing it would have been to have those nuns there as an example to the non-Catholic population. One of the reasons that the original posts on this forum gave for the need of a new monastery is that the children in the school next door made noise which would disturb the prayers. I attend weekday Mass at a parish with a school with a few hundred kids in the school. There is also a Eucharistic Adoration chapel on the premises of the parish. I have rarely even noticed the noise from the kids on the playground. We are often in church and the Eucharisitic Adoration chapel when the kids play outdoors. Also, the diocese of Columbus covers 23 of Ohio's 88 counties and there is only ONE community of Sisters who wear their habits and veils (the Carmelite Sisters of the Aged and Infirm who operate a large assisted living facility and extended care facility for the elderly in one of the the eastern Columbus suburbs). Perhaps all these reasons mentioned by people in this forum are not what the nuns think are the true reasons for leaving the diocese. So that is why I thought to contribute factual information that I know first hand to be true.

[Lilllabettt]

Dear Buckeye,



Have you lived inside the cloister at Portsmouth? Do you know people who have?

Cloistered life is HARD. It is hard to lead a life of silence, solitude and prayer. It is even HARDER to live that life in a noisy, cramped space with little privacy. You, as a lay person, have not experienced what it is like to dedicate your life to God behind 4 walls ... only to experience the outside world pressing in on those 4 walls... the frustration can drive some to tears ...

Have some compassion.

and for heaven's sakes. Being Catholic is not a zero-sum game.

Quit being jingoistic.

Rejoice for North Carolina.

[Formosus]

Yes we have 7-8 active religious orders and several consecrated virgins (who I beleive you must be counting as the 8th). I said we have no strictly cloistered religious sisters in the Diocese of Charlotte and I am fairly certain that there were none in the entire state of NC.

[Buckeye]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' date='19 April 2010 - 07:23 PM' timestamp='1271715784' post='2096421']
Dear Buckeye,



Have you lived inside the cloister at Portsmouth? Do you know people who have?

Cloistered life is HARD. It is hard to lead a life of silence, solitude and prayer. It is even HARDER to live that life in a noisy, cramped space with little privacy. You, as a lay person, have not experienced what it is like to dedicate your life to God behind 4 walls ... only to experience the outside world pressing in on those 4 walls... the frustration can drive some to tears ...

Have some compassion.

and for heaven's sakes. Being Catholic is not a zero-sum game.

Quit being jingoistic.

Rejoice for North Carolina.
[/quote]

[Buckeye]

No, obviously I have never lived in a cloister. But on EWTN I learned about the original Poor Clares founded by St. Francis and St. Clare in Assisi. Back in the day, those nuns and St. Clare had it way harder than any of the things you're describing. They barely ate and had very little heat when it was cold in the winter. St. Clare would give up her food when they were short on provisions...which was often. As far as support from the friars/chaplains, St. Clare was often very bewildered that St. Francis barely bid her the time of day and rarely visited the Poor Clares convent. She longed to interact with him because he'd been her support in founding her own order, the first Poor Clares. So all the statements about not having chaplains and bad buildings in Portsmouth reminds us that dear St. Clare and her fellow nuns endured much more severe privation and did so with joy and trust in the Lord. Maybe Portsmouth would be a place for some other Poor Clares or cloistered Franciscan nuns to follow St. Clare in a more radical way. It would be very hard and perhaps modern day people would not hold up under the strain. I heard somewhere that the Missionaries of Charity are a bit reticent about accepting women from "first world" countries such as the U.S., Canada, and the E.U. because the way of life of most people from those countries is not conducive to preparing for the radical poverty practiced by the Missionaries of Charity. It seems that many want to follow Mother Teresa's way of life but cannot endure the poverty she practiced. Perhaps more vocations would come to these nuns in NC if prospective candidates could be recruited and first schooled in the virtues gained by following the vow of povery in a more assiduous and radical manner. Perhaps fewer would then enter their NC convent but, then again, perhaps fewer would resign from the monastery.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Buckeye' date='19 April 2010 - 06:00 PM' timestamp='1271714425' post='2096405']
Actually, in fact, I was replying to the ORIGINAL post that highlighted the reasons that person saw as the cause of the relocation of these nuns to NC. What was emphasized in the ORIGINAL post was that there was not enough space in the convent for the 4 nuns and that there was little or no support to build a new monastery on a large piece of land in central Ohio - donated land in fact. In addition, the ORIGINAL post stated that the nuns did not have sufficient service from chaplains. They had Father Jospeh Klee in recent years and prior to his being there, Father Patterson (RIP). These are two of the most holy and sincere priests of the diocese of Columbus. Therefore, they had wonderful chaplains. Bishop Griffin (emeritus) and Bishop Campbell (currently in office) gave wonderful chaplains to the nuns. In addition, the nuns' newsletter was replete with photos of numerous priests who would stop by from other dioceses and even fairly frequent visits from teh MFVA friars from EWTN in Alabama. So I was only trying to correct the record by providing the facts that have been very publicly known in the diocese. These things were even publicized by the nuns themselves on their website and in their newsletters. As far as dioceses that need religious, I noted several (at least 7-8) orders of sisters/nuns in the diocese of Charlotte listed on the diocese's website as being within the diocese. This seems possibly even more communities than there are in the diocese of Columbus even though, as you mention, Ohio has a much larger proportion of Catholics. Portsmouth, Ohio is near Kentucky and the Ohio River and very low in Catholics and what a wonderful thing it would have been to have those nuns there as an example to the non-Catholic population. One of the reasons that the original posts on this forum gave for the need of a new monastery is that the children in the school next door made noise which would disturb the prayers. I attend weekday Mass at a parish with a school with a few hundred kids in the school. There is also a Eucharistic Adoration chapel on the premises of the parish. I have rarely even noticed the noise from the kids on the playground. We are often in church and the Eucharisitic Adoration chapel when the kids play outdoors. Also, the diocese of Columbus covers 23 of Ohio's 88 counties and there is only ONE community of Sisters who wear their habits and veils (the Carmelite Sisters of the Aged and Infirm who operate a large assisted living facility and extended care facility for the elderly in one of the the eastern Columbus suburbs). Perhaps all these reasons mentioned by people in this forum are not what the nuns think are the true reasons for leaving the diocese. So that is why I thought to contribute factual information that I know first hand to be true.
[/quote]

"Contemplative" nuns means, basically, "cloistered" nuns. That is what Zunshynn and I were referring to. There is a need for a variety of religious, and North Carolina needs contemplative nuns.

Look, you may be justified to be upset at one person who may have misrepresented the situation. But you are way out of line to jump to conclusions about the sisters' motives for leaving if you haven't been in their shoes. Nor is it true that just because someone on this forum (I have yet to see the post, so I'm still not sure whose accounts you are replying to) had some misconceptions/malicious intentions does not mean that those were all the ideas we here at Phatmass have adopted about Portsmouth. As a matter of fact, I had never heard of the allegations you were replying to in the first place.

I know you keep defending yourself but at the end of the day the only thing all of us here are disagreeing with is your presumption in knowing exactly what the situation is. You don't. And heaven knows no one else here does either. That's why it's futile to be spreading seeds of discontent -- especially when they're groundless.

Truly, the best course of action here seem unequivocally to be to rejoice for North Carolina.

[Buckeye]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' date='19 April 2010 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1271721690' post='2096471']
"Contemplative" nuns means, basically, "cloistered" nuns. That is what Zunshynn and I were referring to. There is a need for a variety of religious, and North Carolina needs contemplative nuns.

Look, you may be justified to be upset at one person who may have misrepresented the situation. But you are way out of line to jump to conclusions about the sisters' motives for leaving if you haven't been in their shoes. Nor is it true that just because someone on this forum (I have yet to see the post, so I'm still not sure whose accounts you are replying to) had some misconceptions/malicious intentions does not mean that those were all the ideas we here at Phatmass have adopted about Portsmouth. As a matter of fact, I had never heard of the allegations you were replying to in the first place.

I know you keep defending yourself but at the end of the day the only thing all of us here are disagreeing with is your presumption in knowing exactly what the situation is. You don't. And heaven knows no one else here does either. That's why it's futile to be spreading seeds of discontent -- especially when they're groundless.

Truly, the best course of action here seem unequivocally to be to rejoice for North Carolina.
[/quote]

[holly.o]

I'm very grateful they're here although I do understand such a move can be painful. God bless them in their work!

There's a link to their Spring Newsletter on their website - it describes the move: [url="http://www.stjosephmonastery.com/"]PCPAs.[/url]