Receiving Jesus In The Hand...not A Good Idea

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='21 April 2010 - 03:20 PM' timestamp='1271884842' post='2097514']
+JMJ+
it doesn't. and i'm not arguing for that. in fact, the communion rite would go a lot faster if people who shouldn't receive (i.e. in a state of mortal sin), didn't.
[/quote]
Just to be clear . . . I was not responding to any particular post; instead, I was just making a general comment.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='21 April 2010 - 02:31 PM' timestamp='1271885486' post='2097521']
Just to be clear . . . I was not responding to any particular post; instead, I was just making a general comment.
[/quote]
gotcha

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='21 April 2010 - 03:20 PM' timestamp='1271884842' post='2097514']
+JMJ+
. . . the communion rite would go a lot faster if people who shouldn't receive (i.e. in a state of mortal sin), didn't.
[/quote]
BTW, I do agree with this statement.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='21 April 2010 - 04:47 PM' timestamp='1271882864' post='2097500']
There are legitimate reasons to require a shorter Mass. Mass is, indeed, the most important thing we can do on Earth. The laity are not required to do something that would result in the starvation of their family, or that would cause their family to become destitute. I think you are being a little too absolute.

That said, these circumstances are rare.
[/quote]

Starvation of ones family or actually emergencies are justifiable reasons to forgo attending Mass in the first place. I was trying to speak in general. Our microwave dinner generation can't wait for anything anymore. Too many people have excuses, excuses from emotion not reason. Many reasons why people say they couldn't wait an hour can be fixed, if they really wanted them fixed. The same is true for those that have excuses why they cannot receive on the tongue. Those excuses can be fixed if they truly wanted to receive via the norm. For example many do not like to receive on the tongue from a EM simply because their receiving from an EM. I don't either, but the norm is the norm for me and I choose to obey it, so can others.

Western Christians in comparison to say Christians in Africa and Asian nations like Communist China have actual real deadly hardships to attend Mass. The woman that crawled to Mass was an African woman if memory serves. It takes them hours to get to Mass, and their path is often dangerous because they could be murdered. Many Western Christians wouldn't last a day in such nations. I see many of us wining like spoiled children, acting as if we have true hardships when in actually it is just a inconvenience. Not that there aren't actual real hardships for Western Christians I'm not saying there isn't. I'm just saying too many of us are lazy impatient and ungrateful.

Note I am not speaking to any one person here or any where only speaking in general.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='21 April 2010 - 06:13 PM' timestamp='1271884404' post='2097511']
I do not see how having the mass last for an hour or an hour and a half could be harmful to the laity. Why does the communion rite have to mimic the delivery of fast food?
[/quote]

At one of the parishes I attended for daily Mass while in university, I timed the daily Mass at 13 minutes. (Yep, you heard right -- THIRTEEN minutes.) I always felt gypped going there for daily Mass -- seemed everything was always super-rushed even though only about five to ten people came on a regular basis.... so, I timed it a few times. Average time = 13 minutes.

Does anyone know, is there a time limit on how [b]short [/b]a Mass can be? I had asked one of the priests in the male branch of my former community and he had said minimum was fifteen to twenty minutes for a daily Mass, but I can't remember what source he gave.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

Miscellaneous thoughts from a person on the "outside," reading this thread:

Clearly things are less than ideal with regard to the distribution of the Eucharist, with no obvious single answer. However, it is a blessing to hear that there are some congregations that are so large that communion would take more than 30 minutes if no EME's were used. (Not necessarily a blessing that there are EME's--only that many people are attending Mass.)

For some here on Phatmass, EMEs are an issue or a problem and they would prefer that the Church did not use them. On the other hand, many members of congregations have legitimate time concerns with getting to their job, or the short attention span of their children, just to give two example--so the length of the Mass IS an issue. The Church certainly does not want to discourage members of its congregation from attending Mass.

Obviously I'm raising questions with no suggestion of how to fix this, unless the Church were to follow the Mormon custom of making virtually all young men priests. Note: I AM NOT suggesting this--this is a JOKE. Mormons may consider themselves Christians, but they have some truly strange beliefs and customs that go counter to Christianity, not to mention wearing funny underwear.

One serious question: Do most churches distribute both the Body and the Blood (the Chalice), or the Body alone? If a church distributes both, wouldn't intinction be one option for saving time during crowded masses, even if it is not the ideal?

Also, I have no idea if the sign of the peace is a requirement in the Mass, but I for one, find it awkward and uncomfortable. Some others of you have expressed this opinion, as well. Liturgically, would it be acceptable for the priest to simply offer the peace, and then the congregation offer it back verbally without greeting each other?

Another issue completely opposite of Mass taking too long is something that I have only seen in Catholic churches, and that is the priest rushing the Mass as if he is a contest to determine which priest can finish Mass in the shortest time. The Masses I attended where this happened were probably some of the least meaningful Masses to me. I know this is not the norm. But, how can members of the congregation rush through Mass and still feel that they have had a true experience of Christ? This is NOT a criticism, only something that has always puzzled me, because I have never seen it in other denominations (or in Judaism).

Thank-you in advance for your answers. I've learned a lot from the debate.

Edited April 21, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[HisChildForever]

Wow to the 13 minute Mass. I went to daily Mass on campus once and it was close to 30.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='21 April 2010 - 05:51 PM' timestamp='1271890291' post='2097556']
At one of the parishes I attended for daily Mass while in university, I timed the daily Mass at 13 minutes. (Yep, you heard right -- THIRTEEN minutes.) I always felt gypped going there for daily Mass -- seemed everything was always super-rushed even though only about five to ten people came on a regular basis.... so, I timed it a few times. Average time = 13 minutes.

Does anyone know, is there a time limit on how [b]short [/b]a Mass can be? I had asked one of the priests in the male branch of my former community and he had said minimum was fifteen to twenty minutes for a daily Mass, but I can't remember what source he gave.
[/quote]

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=cTAEAAAAQAAJ&dq=Sacerdos%20sanctificatus&pg=PA32#v=onepage&q=mortal%20sin&f=false"]According[/url] to St. Alphonsus, it would be a mortal sin to celebrate a Low Mass in less than 15 minutes.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='21 April 2010 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1271891838' post='2097582']
[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=cTAEAAAAQAAJ&dq=Sacerdos%20sanctificatus&pg=PA32#v=onepage&q=mortal%20sin&f=false"]According[/url] to St. Alphonsus, it would be a mortal sin to celebrate a Low Mass in less than 15 minutes.
[/quote]

Whoa...

I should buy that book for that 13-minute-daily-Mass priest and give it to him as a gift at the closing of the Year for Priests... hopefully he won't find it too offensive.

Then again, I don't know if he'd even read it.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='21 April 2010 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1271892220' post='2097586']
Whoa...

I should buy that book for that 13-minute-daily-Mass priest and give it to him as a gift at the closing of the Year for Priests... hopefully he won't find it too offensive.

Then again, I don't know if he'd even read it.
[/quote]

I do love what St. Alphonsus has to say in that book. I highly recommend it.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='21 April 2010 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1271892220' post='2097586']
Whoa...

I should buy that book for that 13-minute-daily-Mass priest and give it to him as a gift at the closing of the Year for Priests... hopefully he won't find it too offensive.

Then again, I don't know if he'd even read it.
[/quote]

It is also important to not that, when saying Mass must not be shorter than 15 minutes, St. Alphonsus was probably referring not only to a Low Mass, but to a Low Mass with no sermon and no people's Communion. If a priest were to give a sermon or were to distribute Communion to the people, the Mass would need to be longer than 15 minutes.

[God Conquers]

I understand brevity... but 15 minutes is ridiculous.

Our campus chaplain used to do an 115 min mass. It was terrible. Mostly because his sermons were 40 minutes, even though there might only be 1 or 2 people, and there were way too many abuses.

Even if you wanted to go, you'd have to be lat for class. He wouldn't change it no matter how many times we asked.

[SaintOfVirtue]

I agree with the message of the video entirely; but for some reason the guy in the video seems to have a mannerism which irritated me. He seems kind of, I'm not sure if this is the right word, but "pompous". Other than that it was a good presentation.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='SaintOfVirtue' date='21 April 2010 - 09:17 PM' timestamp='1271895424' post='2097631']
I agree with the message of the video entirely; but for some reason the guy in the video seems to have a mannerism which irritated me. He seems kind of, I'm not sure if this is the right word, but "pompous". Other than that it was a good presentation.
[/quote]


I posted that video in my facebook and one of my FB friends said he was too arrogant for her. She agreed with his points, but just had a hard time getting past the arrogance.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='21 April 2010 - 07:19 PM' timestamp='1271895589' post='2097633']
I posted that video in my facebook and one of my FB friends said he was too arrogant for her. She agreed with his points, but just had a hard time getting past the arrogance.
[/quote]

I didn't find him arrogant.