Limbo Is A Heretical View According To Epiphanius

[reyb]

In Catholic theology, Limbo (Latin limbus, edge or boundary, referring to the "edge" of Hell) is a speculative idea about the afterlife condition of those who die in original sin without being assigned to the Hell of the damned. Limbo is not an official doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church or any other. Medieval theologians described the underworld ("hell", "hades", "infernum") as divided into four distinct parts: hell of the damned (which some call gehenna), purgatory, limbo of the fathers, and limbo of infants.

The Limbo of the Patriarchs or Limbo of the Fathers (Latin limbus patrum) is seen as the temporary state of those who, in spite of the personal sins they may have committed, died in the friendship of God, but could not enter Heaven until redemption by Jesus Christ made it possible. The term "Limbo of the Fathers" was a medieval name for the part of the underworld (Hades) where the patriarchs of the Old Testament were believed to be kept until Christ's soul descended into it by his death[1] through crucifixion and freed them (see Harrowing of hell). The Catechism of the Catholic Church describes Christ's descent into "hell" as meaning primarily that "the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection. This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ's descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead." It adds: "But he descended there as Saviour, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there." It does not use the word "Limbo".[2]

The Limbo of Infants (Latin limbus infantium or limbus puerorum) is a hypothesis about the permanent status of the unbaptized who die in infancy, too young to have committed personal sins, but not having been freed from original sin. Since at least the time of Augustine, theologians, considering baptism to be necessary for the salvation of those to whom it can be administered, have debated the fate of unbaptized innocents, and the theory of the Limbo of Infants is one of the hypotheses that have been formulated as a proposed solution. Some who hold this theory regard the Limbo of Infants as a state of maximum natural happiness, others as one of "mildest punishment" consisting at least of privation of thebeatific vision and of any hope of obtaining it. This theory, in any of its forms, has never been dogmatically defined by the Church, but it is permissible to hold it. Recent Catholic theological speculation tends to stress the hope that these infants may attain heaven instead of the supposed state of Limbo; however, the directly opposed theological opinion also exists, namely that there is no afterlife state intermediate between salvation and damnation, and that all the unbaptized are damned.[3]

(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo)


Now, according to http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09645c.htm) -
Epiphanius (Haer., xlii, 4) says that Marcionites believed that in Limbo Christ brought salvation to Cain, Core, Dathan and Abiron, Esau, and the Gentiles, but left in damnation all Old Testament saints.

Therefore, Limbo Is A Heretical View.

[KnightofChrist]

Epiphanius did not state that the Limbo of the Fathers was heretical but that the teachings of the Marcionites were heretical. Because they taught that "Christ brought salvation to Cain, Core, Dathan and Abiron, Esau, and the Gentiles, but left in damnation all Old Testament saints." It is that part which is condemned and would be heresy, because Epiphanius believed that Christ did give salvation to all the Old Testament saints. Where as the Marcionites believed the old testament saints were not saved.

Edited April 15, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[KnightofChrist]

Also please do not confuse Limbo of the Infants with Limbo of the Fathers they are two different things.

[reyb]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='14 April 2010 - 10:10 PM' timestamp='1271297421' post='2093690']
Also please do not confuse Limbo of the Infants with Limbo of the Fathers they are two different things.
[/quote]

I do not think Marcionites are referring to limbo of infants (since they are mentioning of Cain, Core, Dathan and Abiron, Esau, and the Gentiles).

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='reyb' date='14 April 2010 - 10:13 PM' timestamp='1271297611' post='2093696']
I do not think Marcionites are referring to limbo of infants (since they are mentioning of Cain, Core, Dathan and Abiron, Esau, and the Gentiles).
[/quote]

No they are not, but I just wanted to be clear with you we are not debating Limbo of the Infants. That is a different topic altogether.

[reyb]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='14 April 2010 - 09:56 PM' timestamp='1271296567' post='2093673']
Epiphanius did not state that the Limbo of the Fathers was heretical but that the teachings of the Marcionites were heretical. Because they taught that "Christ brought salvation to Cain, Core, Dathan and Abiron, Esau, and the Gentiles, but left in damnation all Old Testament saints." It is that part which is condemned and would be heresy, because Epiphanius believed that Christ did give salvation to all the Old Testament saints. Where as the Marcionites believed the old testament saints were not saved.
[/quote]

But the 'idea' that Christ did give salvation in Limbo is actually 'Marcionitism'.

[reyb]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='14 April 2010 - 10:15 PM' timestamp='1271297741' post='2093699']
No they are not, but I just wanted to be clear with you we are not debating Limbo of the Infants. That is a different topic altogether.
[/quote]

Okay.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='reyb' date='14 April 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1271297847' post='2093704']
But the 'idea' that Christ did give salvation in Limbo is actually 'Marcionitism'.
[/quote]

No, no it is not.

[Marie-Therese]

[quote name='reyb' date='14 April 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1271297847' post='2093704']
But the 'idea' that Christ did give salvation in Limbo is actually 'Marcionitism'.
[/quote]

No. The idea that Old Testament saints were damned while those who were unrepentant sinners (Cain, Esau and others) were given salvation is Marcionitism. Anyone who has a simple understanding of Catholic doctrine would never believe this.

However, the position of the Church on Limbo is that it is an undefined concept. The Church does not refute the existence of Limbo, nor does it endorse it. Catholics are only required to accept as faith what the Church defines as dogma. Up until this point, the Church has no official position on Limbo. Your argument makes no real sense.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Marie-Therese

[reyb]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='14 April 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1271299188' post='2093734']
No. The idea that Old Testament saints were damned while those who were unrepentant sinners (Cain, Esau and others) were given salvation is Marcionitism. Anyone who has a simple understanding of Catholic doctrine would never believe this.

However, the position of the Church on Limbo is that it is an undefined concept. The Church does not refute the existence of Limbo, nor does it endorse it. Catholics are only required to accept as faith what the Church defines as dogma. Up until this point, the Church has no official position on Limbo. Your argument makes no real sense.
[/quote]

If that is the case, we have now two ‘unofficial’ Catholic beliefs 1. limbo and 2. [post='1742829 ']the one Moses saw in burning bush[/post]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='reyb' date='15 April 2010 - 05:55 AM' timestamp='1271321754' post='2093856']
If that is the case, we have now two ‘unofficial’ Catholic beliefs 1. limbo and 2. [post='1742829 ']the one Moses saw in burning bush[/post]
[/quote]Limbo is speculation, which means its not dogma.

[KnightofChrist]

My goodness Limbo of the Fathers is official catholic teaching, it's in the Apostle's Creed, "He descended into hell", "hell" is Limbo of the fathers. Limbo of the Infants is not.

[cmotherofpirl]

Limbus patrum is, Limbus infantium is not, which is what I just said.
When people think of "limbo" they think of babies

[reyb]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='15 April 2010 - 04:13 PM' timestamp='1271362425' post='2094183']
Limbus patrum is, Limbus infantium is not, which is what I just said.
When people think of "limbo" they think of babies
[/quote]
which means, Limbo of the fathers is an 'official dogma'...? Is it or Is it not?

[Apotheoun]

This is another confused and confusing thread, because the original poster has been imprecise in the first post.