Fallen Away Catholics

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='picchick' date='15 April 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1271346976' post='2094051']
what is holding them back from the faith?
[/quote]

I think they would already have faith, just in a different way. Just because they are not Catholic does not mean they do not believe in God etc.

I would more ask them why they do want to attend Mass and receive Communion, unless of course they find that some sort of strange ritual or something or other.

[BG45]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='10 May 2010 - 05:55 PM' timestamp='1273528533' post='2108303']
Like you, I don't want to cause trouble. What I wonder is what exactly there is to discuss if you're not open to changing any of your beliefs and don't expect any of us to respond to yours?
[/quote]

Do you mean in that a thread a month old was resurrected to discuss why it shouldn't be discussed?

Cliche it may be, but often St. Francis advice on only using words when the need arises is sometimes the best. As freethinker said, often an attempt at conversation can be more detrimental than good.

Edited May 10, 2010 by BG45

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' date='10 May 2010 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1273528997' post='2108310']
Why? I do not ask sarcastically, but genuinely.

If you want to be left alone, well.....I will respect that. However bear in mind that such a course of action is "close-minded" and a contradiction of the term "free-thinker."
[/quote]

Or if said individual wants to be left alone, why post in a thread about the conversion or reversion of fallen away Catholics.

[Guest Freethinker]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='10 May 2010 - 04:55 PM' timestamp='1273528533' post='2108303']
Like you, I don't want to cause trouble. What I wonder is what exactly there is to discuss if you're not open to changing any of your beliefs and don't expect any of us to respond to yours?
[/quote]

A discussion doesn't have to end in one side agreeing with the other. A discussion can end with one side saying "I may not agree with you, but I at least have a better understanding of your thought process." Does that make sense?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='BG45' date='10 May 2010 - 05:04 PM' timestamp='1273529048' post='2108313']
Cliche it may be, but often St. Francis advice on only using words when the need arises is sometimes the best.
[/quote]

I have heard it stated that said quote is spurious.

[tinytherese]

Why am I Catholic? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0nSjxDKJEo&feature=PlayList&p=01E1A44C1C3D6A73&playnext_from=PL&index=6

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Freethinker' date='10 May 2010 - 06:11 PM' timestamp='1273529472' post='2108319']
A discussion doesn't have to end in one side agreeing with the other. A discussion can end with one side saying "I may not agree with you, but I at least have a better understanding of your thought process." Does that make sense?
[/quote]

You do not have to join a forum to get a better understanding of Catholicism though.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Freethinker' date='11 May 2010 - 09:50 AM' timestamp='1273528225' post='2108296']


In response to the question, my personal view is that I like to be left alone. At the end of the day, discussing beliefs is a bad idea. Nothing I say will be considered by a devout Catholic as a valid reason for leaving the church, and in my case organized religion in general. Nothing you say will convince me to come back. So please, just leave us alone.
[/quote]

What we must do, is try to live our lives as closely to Jesus as possible, so that we can let people like you see Christ in us. We must be ready to answer your questions and share the Good News, but not be intrusive, which will only drive you further away. We must let you see us loving you and beckoning you to return from the wilderness observing how contented we are in the love of Jesus. And I have no doubt that the wilderness is where you are at the moment. We must pray for you often.

[tinytherese]

Let's be careful everyone. We don't want to scare Freethinker away.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='10 May 2010 - 06:11 PM' timestamp='1273529490' post='2108320']
I have heard it stated that said quote is spurious.
[/quote]
No, Spurrious coaches the Gamecocks.








Wait...

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='11 May 2010 - 10:23 AM' timestamp='1273530196' post='2108325']
Let's be careful everyone. We don't want to scare Freethinker away.
[/quote]

Yes we must write words that demonstrate the love that Jesus has for all people but if Jesus wishes to claim Freethinker for himself then there is no escape. But why would anyone want to?

[Bennn]

[quote name='Freethinker' date='10 May 2010 - 11:50 PM' timestamp='1273528225' post='2108296']
First, let me start by saying that I'm not here to cause trouble or be a troll. As my religion tag says, I have left the Catholic Church and really don't intend on going back - it's possible, but not likely. I don't have a religion at the moment, although I have considered becoming an Episcopalian. However, I do enjoy learning about religious beliefs and lack of religious beliefs. I've been on Catholic sites as well as atheist/agnostic sites. My intent is to discuss, not to belittle or poke fun. I hope everyone will respond likewise.

In response to the question, my personal view is that I like to be left alone. At the end of the day, discussing beliefs is a bad idea. Nothing I say will be considered by a devout Catholic as a valid reason for leaving the church, and in my case organized religion in general. Nothing you say will convince me to come back. So please, just leave us alone.
[/quote]


Welcome.

I know that some non Catholics desire to be left alone. Yet, we cannot respect that desire because our Lord has commanded us to preach the Gospel, whether we are welcome or not. This may come across as harsh to you, but it is actually out of love for your soul that we try to convert you, because if we know that you fell away from the faith, putting your soul in grave danger of going to hell, it is our duty to present the truth of Gods existance and His mercy towards you. He desires to pour His compassion into your soul. Please, try to understand why we are so persistent in trying to convert others. If we did not try to convince you, we would be lying when we say that we love God and our neighbour, because we would be letting souls perish in our indifference.

Jesus told Saint Faustina (mystica and nun) that the flames of mercy are burning Him, clamouring to be spent. He is in agony because He desires to pour His mercy into human souls to save them and to give them true inner peace and eternal life with Him in Heaven. He is simply waiting for your consent. It hurts our Lord immensely when a soul refuses His redeeming grace, so it hurts us as well, and we want to do everything we can do to save as many souls as possible, through the grace of the Holy Spirit, even if it causes us to be martyred for doing so.

We are often accused of being narrowminded. But Christ asks from us that we are narrowminded when it comes to faith and morals, because the path to destruction is broad, and the gate of salvation is narrow. I know that being confronted with your sins is hard. We know because we are sinners ourselves. But this confrontation is necessary if we want to receive the forgiving love of Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit, Who is one God. As soon as you give the glimpse of repentance, He comes to your aid immediately, to prepare you for the Sacrament of Confession. He desires to embrace you with His love so ardently that you would die of joy if you knew the extent of it!

I sincerely hope and pray that you will think about our words.

Pax Domini,
Ben

[StMichael]

It depends on how much they are interested in engaging in the topic.

If they have this need to speak about it with you, to the point of initiating it, then they are looking for a reason to come back. What I do in those cases is have them attend an RCIA. Depending on the parish, some really allow for full questioning of the faith and answers arise that wake up many.

Then there are those who join these Jesus clubs (non-Catholic) for completely other reasons, like the social aspect. If that is what they want from their "faith," not much you can do for them other than pray.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Freethinker' date='10 May 2010 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1273528225' post='2108296']
First, let me start by saying that I'm not here to cause trouble or be a troll. As my religion tag says, I have left the Catholic Church and really don't intend on going back - it's possible, but not likely. I don't have a religion at the moment, although I have considered becoming an Episcopalian. However, I do enjoy learning about religious beliefs and lack of religious beliefs. I've been on Catholic sites as well as atheist/agnostic sites. [b]My intent is to discuss, not to belittle or poke fun. I hope everyone will respond likewise.[/b]

In response to the question, my personal view is that I like to be left alone. [b]At the end of the day, discussing beliefs is a bad idea.[/b] Nothing I say will be considered by a devout Catholic as a valid reason for leaving the church, and in my case organized religion in general. Nothing you say will convince me to come back. So please, just leave us alone.
[/quote]

I'm confused. The two bolded sentences contradict each other. Do you want to discuss Catholicism, specifically traditional/orthodox Catholicism, or do you think discussing it is a bad idea? I'm not questioning this in a negative way--I'm just not sure which you want. As I see it, one of the main purposes of this site is to discuss traditional/orthodox Catholicism.

As I see it, it is probably expecting too much of a forum geared to traditional/orthodox Catholics that they are not going to express strong beliefs. That's the purpose of this forum. The people on this forum, by and large, will be very good about not pointing fingers or calling names as long as you show respect, too. But, on the other hand, they are not going water down what they say about what they believe just so you won't disagree or be insulted.

As you can see, I AM an Episcopalian. I came here with a specific question about the Catholic church, and found I had many more, and also met some wonderful people.

Right now, I am ONLY speaking for myself and my experiences, not for Phatmass. But, the way I see it, this is the "turf" of traditional/orthodox Catholics. They are happy to answer questions as long as you really want to know the answer, and you respect their point of view. That doesn't mean you have to agree, but, at least for me, if I didn't at least respect the views of those on Phatmass, then I wouldn't be here. If you want to discuss your beliefs with the other posters, that's fine. But, they have strong beliefs, and they are VERY smart people who have done a lot of reading and research, and their strong beliefs are based not on blind faith or "just because I was raised that way," but both on their experience AND intellect.

So, if you want to be here, knowing the ground rules, then you'll find you are welcome. But, if you are looking for people to say, "I understand why you have fallen away. That's okay, live Catholicism any way you wish," I doubt you're going to hear that on this site. That statement does not express the values of most people on this site.

Oh, a "warning": Once you enter this site, you HAVE opened yourself--the Holy Spirit has ways of "getting to you" without asking permission. The people on Phatmass may not push, but God will. Again, just a warning. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img]

Edited May 10, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[tinytherese]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='10 May 2010 - 05:23 PM' timestamp='1273530196' post='2108325']
Let's be careful everyone. We don't want to scare Freethinker away.
[/quote]

And keep in mind that I am not saying we should water down our answers, but to discuss truth with charity and compassion. As at least one phatmasser put it before however many months ago, how we can really evangelize is by touching the heart of an individual. This doesn't mean that we ignore reason, but that we try to show them the beauty of the faith and not just the "head knowledge" stuff. Remember the encyclical Fides et Ratio-On Faith and Reason.