Sodomy vs. The True Nature of Marriage

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='16 April 2010 - 12:31 AM' timestamp='1271392269' post='2094453']
Who has attacked your character? I don't think anyone has claimed you've attacked Mr. West's character either.

Here are the facts as they stand with regard to this thread:

You claim there are "teaching errors of West".

You have shown that several years ago West made an error in teaching about sodomy.

It has been shown that he has remedied this error.

You continue to assert other faults, without any proof. Even in your last post you say there is more, but refuse to prove it.


If there was a question of character, I'd say it was spreading rumor of error without proof. It affects Mr. West's credibility, and the opinion of people in the public place where you've made the assertions.


I'm not trying to attack you here, just showing why people might be interested in you giving whatever information it is you have.
[/quote]

I believe he had left this thread, so your post is unnecessary.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 April 2010 - 12:48 AM' timestamp='1271393285' post='2094456']
I believe he had left this thread
[/quote]

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='15 April 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1271383119' post='2094399']
I think I remember something like this from Kierkegaard. Of course with my slightly add mind I can't remember where or when I read this and can't track it down.
[/quote]

His book Works of Love. You win the

[mommas_boy]

It seems to me that this falls in with other forms of foreplay, where the general rule (from what I've been taught) is that so long as ejaculation occurs within the context of vaginal sex, everything else is more or less OK, so long as the act is loving. If both parties derive pleasure from an act of foreplay, and yet strive to ensure that ejaculation occurs within the vagina, could someone please answer me why anal sex as foreplay is wrong?

Note: I am not married, and do not intend to engage in anal sex with my future wife as a form of foreplay, because I personally find the idea disgusting. However, it's just that this argument seems contrary to what I was previously taught about the morality of foreplay, vis. above.

Edited April 16, 2010 by mommas_boy

[Seven77]

[quote name='mommas_boy' date='16 April 2010 - 06:41 PM' timestamp='1271454104' post='2094907']
It seems to me that this falls in with other forms of foreplay, where the general rule (from what I've been taught) is that so long as ejaculation occurs within the context of vaginal sex, everything else is more or less OK, so long as the act is loving. If both parties derive pleasure from an act of foreplay, and yet strive to ensure that ejaculation occurs within the vagina, could someone please answer me why anal sex as foreplay is wrong?

Note: I am not married, and do not intend to engage in anal sex with my future wife as a form of foreplay, because I personally find the idea disgusting. However, it's just that this argument seems contrary to what I was previously taught about the morality of foreplay, vis. above.
[/quote]

its an abominable action that spreads bacteria... it's hazardous and that itself is a satisfactory reason why it's wrong. if couples find pleasure in watching porn before the maritial embrace does that make it ok?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='mommas_boy' date='16 April 2010 - 03:41 PM' timestamp='1271454104' post='2094907']
It seems to me that this falls in with other forms of foreplay, where the general rule (from what I've been taught) is that so long as ejaculation occurs within the context of vaginal sex, everything else is more or less OK, so long as the act is loving. If both parties derive pleasure from an act of foreplay, and yet strive to ensure that ejaculation occurs within the vagina, could someone please answer me why anal sex as foreplay is wrong?

Note: I am not married, and do not intend to engage in anal sex with my future wife as a form of foreplay, because I personally find the idea disgusting. However, it's just that this argument seems contrary to what I was previously taught about the morality of foreplay, vis. above.
[/quote]
The answer to your question can be found in St. Alphonsus Liguori's [i]Theologia Moralis[/i] (Book IV, Tract IV, Section 466, no. 3), where he affirmed the traditional position of the Church on the subject, i.e., that anal penetration between a man and a woman, which is called "sodomia imperfecta," involves the misuse of the male's generative organ. Thus, the act in question is contrary to nature, and if seminal fluid should also happen to be released during this sinful action it has the added gravity of pollution.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[url="http://www.amazon.com/Thrill-Chaste-Finding-Fulfillment-Keeping/dp/084991311X"]The Thrill of the Chaste: Finding Fulfillment While Keeping Your Clothes On [/url]

[i]...Dawn Eden, author of The Thrill of the Chaste, explores the strengths and weaknesses of Christopher West's presentation of the theology of the body. She examines West's theological background, his lectures and published works, and points of contention which surround his work...[/i]

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='21 April 2010 - 04:09 AM' timestamp='1271840989' post='2097246']
[url="http://www.amazon.com/Thrill-Chaste-Finding-Fulfillment-Keeping/dp/084991311X"]The Thrill of the Chaste: Finding Fulfillment While Keeping Your Clothes On [/url]

[i]...Dawn Eden, author of The Thrill of the Chaste, explores the strengths and weaknesses of Christopher West's presentation of the theology of the body. She examines West's theological background, his lectures and published works, and points of contention which surround his work...[/i]
[/quote]

Did you mean to cite this? http://dawneden.blogspot.com/2009/05/christopher-wests-blind-spot-guest-post.html

I don't remember reading her critiquing his work in her book.

[God Conquers]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='16 April 2010 - 05:59 PM' timestamp='1271455172' post='2094913']
The answer to your question can be found in St. Alphonsus Liguori's [i]Theologia Moralis[/i] (Book IV, Tract IV, Section 466, no. 3), where he affirmed the traditional position of the Church on the subject, i.e., that anal penetration between a man and a woman, which is called "sodomia imperfecta," involves the misuse of the male's generative organ. Thus, the act in question is contrary to nature, and if seminal fluid should also happen to be released during this sinful action it has the added gravity of pollution.
[/quote]

Yes.

It is interesting to note, however, that almost all Penetentiaries from the middle ages and the renaissance impose much harsher penances on sodomy between species or between two males, then on married couples.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='21 April 2010 - 02:19 PM' timestamp='1271881189' post='2097477']
Yes.

It is interesting to note, however, that almost all Penetentiaries from the middle ages and the renaissance impose much harsher penances on sodomy between species or between two males, then on married couples.
[/quote]
Of course there are degrees of gravity when grave sins are involved, and I never said otherwise; instead, I simply pointed out that anal penetration between a man and a woman cannot be seen as a legitimate form of foreplay because it is itself a mortal sin.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='21 April 2010 - 01:46 PM' timestamp='1271871961' post='2097414']
Did you mean to cite this? http://dawneden.blogspot.com/2009/05/christopher-wests-blind-spot-guest-post.html[/quote]
No. I don't remember what I meant to cite, it all happened so fast. Alas, the moment is gone...

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='21 April 2010 - 01:46 PM' timestamp='1271871961' post='2097414']
I don't remember reading her critiquing his work in her book.
[/quote]
Aha! Her masters thesis: [url="http://bridegroompress.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=139"]Towards A Climate of Chastity[/url]

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='Seven77' date='16 April 2010 - 05:56 PM' timestamp='1271454965' post='2094911']
its an abominable action that spreads bacteria... it's hazardous and that itself is a satisfactory reason why it's wrong. if couples find pleasure in watching porn before the maritial embrace does that make it ok?
[/quote]


[quote name='Apotheoun' date='16 April 2010 - 05:59 PM' timestamp='1271455172' post='2094913']
The answer to your question can be found in St. Alphonsus Liguori's [i]Theologia Moralis[/i] (Book IV, Tract IV, Section 466, no. 3), where he affirmed the traditional position of the Church on the subject, i.e., that anal penetration between a man and a woman, which is called "sodomia imperfecta," involves the misuse of the male's generative organ. Thus, the act in question is contrary to nature, and if seminal fluid should also happen to be released during this sinful action it has the added gravity of pollution.
[/quote]

Thank you for this. I hope that the motivation of my question was not misunderstood, but thank you for your help.