Sodomy vs. The True Nature of Marriage

[zunshynn]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='14 April 2010 - 07:45 PM' timestamp='1271295959' post='2093663']
I disagree there is plenty to debate, his teaching on sodomy is not his only error that would lead people astray. Or give people false understandings.

The repentance of his errors are between him and God. I have no way of knowing that he will truly repent. I can know however certain errors that he has taught, and we should hide those away or not talk of them just because he is in time out. Errors and sin continue to spread and spread long after the rock has been thrown into the pond. I welcome the chance that West will join those who condemn the errors in his teachings when he returns, if he returns.
[/quote]

If someone comes to PM looking for information on sodomy your opinions and everyone else's will show right up when they search for it. I wouldn't worry about it. In fact the hundreds more threads you continue to make on the subject will only make it more diluted and likely confusing if someone does come here searching about the subject.

I think it's kind of ironic that the people who attack Christopher West for his errant ideas are the ones that like to continue talking about it. And talking about it. And talking about it. And talking about it. And crying foul and whining about how they are so persecuted. And oh, then they like to talk about it some more.

Very interesting.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Seven77' date='14 April 2010 - 10:16 PM' timestamp='1271297799' post='2093702']
Seriously though... I don't think those videos are appropriate for interrupting a debate that is inappropriate.
[/quote]

The debate is completely appropriate. It is some of but grave teachings of Mr. West which are vastly inappropriate.

[zunshynn]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='14 April 2010 - 08:19 PM' timestamp='1271297955' post='2093708']
The debate is completely appropriate. It is some of but grave teachings of Mr. West which are vastly inappropriate.
[/quote]

Case in point.

Edited April 15, 2010 by zunshynn

[Socrates]

[quote name='Seven77' date='14 April 2010 - 10:16 PM' timestamp='1271297799' post='2093702']
Seriously though... I don't think those videos are appropriate for interrupting a debate that is inappropriate.
[/quote]
Those parts are clean.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='14 April 2010 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1271297908' post='2093706']
I think it's kind of ironic that the people who attack Christopher West for his errant ideas are the ones that like to continue talking about it. And talking about it. [/quote]
No one is attacking Mr. West personally. I am disappointed in you for not seeing the difference.

[MIKolbe]

spam was cleaned.

keep it on topic, or shake your head and walk away.

thanks..

[Seven77]

zun, you raise an important point. This thread may bring more attention to errors that are very dangerous to espouse.

also, It seems to me that anybody who 'trusts' Christopher West is reconsidering right now...

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='14 April 2010 - 10:18 PM' timestamp='1271297908' post='2093706']
If someone comes to PM looking for information on sodomy your opinions and everyone else's will show right up when they search for it. I wouldn't worry about it. In fact the hundreds more threads you continue to make on the subject will only make it more diluted and likely confusing if someone does come here searching about the subject.[/quote]

This is by my memory only the second thread I've began on the topic of the errors of Mr. West. I have also started a few on Abortion and persons who support abortion, using the same logical I guess I should also just shut up about that too.

[quote name='zunshynn' date='14 April 2010 - 10:18 PM' timestamp='1271297908' post='2093706']I think it's kind of ironic that the people who attack Christopher West for his errant ideas are the ones that like to continue talking about it. And talking about it. And talking about it. And talking about it. And crying foul and whining about how they are so persecuted. And oh, then they like to talk about it some more.

Very interesting.
[/quote]

I attack his teachings, not his person. Again no matter how many what to lie and say I am attacking him no matter how many times they repeat it does not make it true.

It's interesting you take part in a debate you say shouldn't be debated. If you don't like it don't partake in it. If your going to partake in it then debate the topic.

Edited April 15, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[God Conquers]

All I've seen from you is repetition of one point, which he corrected.

I really don't get it.

Are you jealous?

You've simply drudged up the same argument a thousand times. Dealt with.

Now, if you have any new information, feel free...

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Seven77' date='14 April 2010 - 10:24 PM' timestamp='1271298286' post='2093715']
It seems to me that anybody who 'trusts' Christopher West is reconsidering right now...
[/quote]

And for good reason, reasons that have to do with this debate. Legitimate reasons which effect many.

[Seven77]

I debate the very nature of this debate-- the timing is off.

At any rate, if Christopher West has made errors as serious as you indicate, you need to provide exact references.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='14 April 2010 - 10:27 PM' timestamp='1271298474' post='2093717']
All I've seen from you is repetition of one point, which he corrected.

I really don't get it.

Are you jealous?

You've simply drudged up the same argument a thousand times. Dealt with.

Now, if you have any new information, feel free...
[/quote]

If someone tells me a thousand times that the sky is green and the grass is blue, I can rightly and justly inform them a thousand times that they are in error. I have repeated it as much as others have denied it.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Seven77' date='14 April 2010 - 10:30 PM' timestamp='1271298620' post='2093720']
if Christopher West has made errors as serious as you indicate, you need to provide exact references.
[/quote]

In the case of sodomy that has already been accomplished. As for other errors I will return tomorrow with them, with references. Until then, God bless.

[zunshynn]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='14 April 2010 - 08:22 PM' timestamp='1271298122' post='2093711']
No one is attacking Mr. West personally. I am disappointed in you for not seeing the difference.
[/quote]

You missed my point. I didn't say anyone was attacking West personally.

Anyway, I'm disappointed that the Theology of the Body is continually reduced to arguments about sodomy that don't go anywhere when it is a very beautiful teaching that is about much, much more than that.

The subject of sodomy is not something that played a major role in West's work, and it definitely is not a foundational point in any way in John Paul II's work. People have already posted West's actual comments on the subject and he condemns it. Perhaps not as forcefully as would have been appropriate, but he in no way advocated it. The only reason sodomy becomes such an issue is because people make it an issue. By talking about it. And talking about it. And talking about it.

I honestly think that if a person only read what West said as a side note about sodomy in the midst of the rest of his work, they would come away with little confusion that it is wrong. That has been my experience. It is when people come across these arguments, as if that is all that one can talk about when it comes to the theology of the body, when in fact, it is a beautiful, rich teaching about the dignity of the human person, that it becomes confusing to people. I think that's really sad. THAT disappoints me.

[zunshynn]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='14 April 2010 - 08:24 PM' timestamp='1271298290' post='2093716']
It's interesting you take part in a debate you say shouldn't be debated. If you don't like it don't partake in it. If your going to partake in it then debate the topic.
[/quote]

I don't usually, if you're interested in reading old threads on the subject, I have rarely commented on them and I probably won't continue to in this one. But I can say I agree with seven77 in that I disagree with the nature and timing of the debate, and personally, I think that's relevant. Sorry you don't.

I didn't say it shouldn't debated. I just think it's sort of an immature debate to keep having. Seriously, no one is still talking about this... and so you want to bring it up again? I mean more power to you if you think that's the solution to correcting people's views about perversity. I just don't really get the logic of that. Seems sort of counterproductive to me.

But please, continue. Everyone loves another good discussion about sodomy right?

Edited April 15, 2010 by zunshynn