Atheists Saying Prayer Is Stupid

[Anomaly]

Most atheists view prayer the way they see it portrayed by the typical Protty. "I knew she'd be found after three days in the woods 'cause I prayed to Jesus about it." "I knew we'd be okay because I prayed for Jesus to take control of the airplane's controls." "Praise Jesus! We won the football game! Give God the glory."

More thoughtfull atheists see prayer as portrayed by the typical Catholic "I prayed to God to make me a better mom, but I still slapped the tar out of the eldest for smarting off. I need to pray harder." or as protrayed by the cars zooming out of the parking lot and cutting each other off.

Or even more informed 'atheists' see prayer as pointless since God's will is going to be done anyway and he really isn't going to change anything anyway, especially for the intellectually honest.

[Hilde]

[quote name='tgoldson' date='17 April 2010 - 12:16 AM' timestamp='1271452607' post='2094893']
In that respect, it would change you (the person praying) so that it becomes easier for you to accept the fact that your sick friend may not recover (at least in the way that you expect or want). It could open your eyes to the unexpected silver lining. For example, sometimes broken family relationships are healed when someone gets sick; sometimes people return to their faith when they are sick.
[/quote]
Ok, but do we want the saints to pray for us so that when they do [u]they[/u] will change? What about praying for someone you don't know or you know that asks you to pray for them, they wish you to do it because they think it might make them better and not only you better right?

[King's Rook's Pawn]

Maybe prayer is like quantum physics: observing it affects its behavior.

[Gregorius]

[quote name='Anomaly' date='20 April 2010 - 12:43 PM' timestamp='1271781839' post='2096824']
Most atheists view prayer the way they see it portrayed by the typical Protty. "I knew she'd be found after three days in the woods 'cause I prayed to Jesus about it." "I knew we'd be okay because I prayed for Jesus to take control of the airplane's controls." "Praise Jesus! We won the football game! Give God the glory."

More thoughtfull atheists see prayer as portrayed by the typical Catholic "I prayed to God to make me a better mom, but I still slapped the tar out of the eldest for smarting off. I need to pray harder." or as protrayed by the cars zooming out of the parking lot and cutting each other off.

Or even more informed 'atheists' see prayer as pointless since God's will is going to be done anyway and he really isn't going to change anything anyway, especially for the intellectually honest.
[/quote]
And even more informed individuals would see that your conclusion comes from an immature idea of prayer, i.e. "God, gimme this!" or "God, I need you to do these things for me!" Prayer in its simplest terms is communication with God. As has already been pointed out, prayer takes on more forms than merely supplication.

[Selah]

*shrugs* Their atheists. They don't believe in a deity. How are they supposed to view it?

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Hilde' date='20 April 2010 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1271788437' post='2096863']
Ok, but do we want the saints to pray for us so that when they do [u]they[/u] will change? [/quote]
Prayer goes through God, so it's not limited to our understanding of time. If the immaculate conception of our blessed mother was made possible by the redemptive suffering and ultimate victory of her son, there's no reason to think that our prayers today had no affect on the past. We know from scripture that the battle against evil had been won, but we're still fighting it in our every day lives. Don't let time confuse the issue.

[quote name='Hilde' date='20 April 2010 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1271788437' post='2096863']
What about praying for someone you don't know or you know that asks you to pray for them, they wish you to do it because they think it might make them better and not only you better right?[/quote]
People are connected. If prayer helps a person, it also helps everyone that person contacts.

Sometimes prayers are answered with the awesome miracle that was desired. Sometimes the answer isn't what was expected. Read 2 Kings 5 - Naaman got angry when he didn't get the answer that he was expecting; he almost missed out on his miracle. I think that happens a lot.

[britannia]

I'm an agnostic; but, bizarrely perhaps, I don't think prayer is stupid. Clearly, I do not believe that presenting a shopping list to God "works"; but I don't think that most of you do either. When atheists say that prayer is stupid, it is usally this sort of approach- surprisingly often voiced by Christians, that they are getting at.

Someone above said that prayer doesn't change things for you but changes you for things, which is persuasive. Without faith, on this basis one can still pray to good effect: rather than asking God to "fix" things one can ask oneself how one ought, rightly, to behave in a given situation. What ought one, without selfishness to feel? For a contemplation of this nature to benefit a person and the world around him/her requires no particular belief (although it probably feels better with such a belief!). When prayer seems to bring palpable benefits, as it does, I think that it is often the fruit of people joining in that sort of reflection.

Further (and you will think this very strange) I can even see the worth of contemplative orders of nuns. I live in London and every time I walk past the Tyburn convent, on the site of particularly nasty Catholic martyrdoms, I am comforted by the fact that inside there are women focusing constantly upon the peaceful and good rather than the violent and evil; and that directs one's own mind for a few minutes.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='britannia' date='23 April 2010 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1272045678' post='2098644']
I'm an agnostic; but, bizarrely perhaps, I don't think prayer is stupid. Clearly, I do not believe that presenting a shopping list to God "works"; but I don't think that most of you do either. When atheists say that prayer is stupid, it is usally this sort of approach- surprisingly often voiced by Christians, that they are getting at.

Someone above said that prayer doesn't change things for you but changes you for things, which is persuasive. Without faith, on this basis one can still pray to good effect: rather than asking God to "fix" things one can ask oneself how one ought, rightly, to behave in a given situation. What ought one, without selfishness to feel? For a contemplation of this nature to benefit a person and the world around him/her requires no particular belief (although it probably feels better with such a belief!). When prayer seems to bring palpable benefits, as it does, I think that it is often the fruit of people joining in that sort of reflection.

Further (and you will think this very strange) I can even see the worth of contemplative orders of nuns. I live in London and every time I walk past the Tyburn convent, on the site of particularly nasty Catholic martyrdoms, I am comforted by the fact that inside there are women focusing constantly upon the peaceful and good rather than the violent and evil; and that directs one's own mind for a few minutes.
[/quote]
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you seem pretty cool. Planning on sticking around on the phorum for a while?

[britannia]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='23 April 2010 - 07:04 PM' timestamp='1272045868' post='2098647']
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you seem pretty cool. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img] Planning on sticking around on the phorum for a while?
[/quote]

[britannia]

Blush! yes please

[Anomaly]

[quote name='britannia' date='23 April 2010 - 03:01 PM' timestamp='1272045678' post='2098644']
I'm an agnostic; but, bizarrely perhaps, I don't think prayer is stupid. Clearly, I do not believe that presenting a shopping list to God "works"; but I don't think that most of you do either. When atheists say that prayer is stupid, it is usally this sort of approach- surprisingly often voiced by Christians, that they are getting at.

Someone above said that prayer doesn't change things for you but changes you for things, which is persuasive. Without faith, on this basis one can still pray to good effect: rather than asking God to "fix" things one can ask oneself how one ought, rightly, to behave in a given situation. What ought one, without selfishness to feel? For a contemplation of this nature to benefit a person and the world around him/her requires no particular belief (although it probably feels better with such a belief!). When prayer seems to bring palpable benefits, as it does, I think that it is often the fruit of people joining in that sort of reflection.

Further (and you will think this very strange) I can even see the worth of contemplative orders of nuns. I live in London and every time I walk past the Tyburn convent, on the site of particularly nasty Catholic martyrdoms, I am comforted by the fact that inside there are women focusing constantly upon the peaceful and good rather than the violent and evil; and that directs one's own mind for a few minutes.
[/quote]
So you're saying that prayer is just like meditation. It helps change yourself, and is a good example of peaceful contemplation instead of violent reaction. I don't disagree.

[Ephrem Augustine]

"Well, if that's what you think..."
I shrug my shoulders and smile.

[Ephrem Augustine]

One of the most exciting and liberating things about prayer is that it needs so little verification, but can only be experienced.
Prayer is scary for the atheist, because it is an experience that cannot be quantified. Prayer is risky. Faith is risky.
Oh well.

[reyb]

Okay Let us discuss about ‘prayer’....


According to [url="http://www.gotatheism.com/prayer.asp"]http://www.gotatheism.com/prayer.asp[/url]
Prayer is a very important concept to most Christians. To most atheists, it is a very peculiar and unusual concept.
Christians are often curious to know why atheists so easily dismiss the apparent power of prayer. The reason is simply that many atheists find the beliefs of Christianity to be logically contradictory in a number of ways. When two statements contradict each other, at least one of them must be false. Something that is a [url="http://www.csus.edu/indiv/m/mayesgr/phl4/Handouts/phl4contradiction.htm"][color=navy]logical contradiction[/color][/url] cannot exist in reality.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

pax domine bretheren...
My answer to this that i have yet to practise as i find anti faith athiest few and far between though still athiest, but i would hopefully establish in my self a firm foundation of biblical morality and morals and reach out to them without mentioning god and let them respond and than at the end ask them do they know where all these morals come from? And hopefully eventually one can say these morals come from the holy bible and that we whom believe in the holy bible believe god revealed these to men, always don't forget to mention that we all for short at times and that your not on some high horse that doesn't understand.

God bless you all.
JC "seek and ye shal find,knock and the door will be opened."

St francessca cabrini(the american saint) "one whom dares nothing recieves nothing,a missionary must be fearless."
St Mary Mackillop of the cross "be eager in your desires but patient in there accomplishment."