Atheists Saying Prayer Is Stupid

[add]

I'm here to say that prayer and prayer groups from "others" for a gravely ill family member (cancer) has and will greatly benefited me in my time of need.

Prayer does work wonders and I have proof –

[Jesus_lol]

just tell them you are praying for the willpower not to punch them in the face, but you can stop if you want.

[ThePenciledOne]

They have no concept of faith, because if they did then they would not be atheists in the first place.

So, I would honestly put it to them like that, because there has to be common ground in order to discuss or even debate.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='MIkolbe' date='14 April 2010 - 08:30 AM' timestamp='1271248204' post='2093111']
You can't fix stupid.
[/quote]


[quote name='Winchester' date='14 April 2010 - 09:42 AM' timestamp='1271252565' post='2093168']
Just say: "Okay." No inflections of any sort. Then pick some random subject and start talking. They're just trying to make you angry. Don't give them what they want.

Alternatively, you can just repeat everything they say.
[/quote]

lol

[quote name='MIkolbe' date='14 April 2010 - 10:13 AM' timestamp='1271254388' post='2093179']
On a more serious note, they may be intellectually deficient with regard to the active vs. passive will of God.

Also, 'stupid' is a pretty wide term; perhaps make them qualify that term. ie - stupid how?

At the end of the day, atheists have faith, it is just they have faith in a 3 lb slab of meat between their ears... tho very few will acknowledge that. They will have to replace THAT faith with the true faith. That is the only way they will not see prayer as stupid.
[/quote]

wow. You're pretty smart. Maybe your mental age IS 25+.



I guess you'd have to decide if you think they are really open to Truth. If they interested in a real discussion why not try to explain prayer? Explain that the purpose isn't just petition, but also adoration, thanksgiving, and repentence. Explain that prayer is about a relationship, not about an atm.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='14 April 2010 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1271269688' post='2093326']

I guess you'd have to decide if you think they are really open to Truth. If they interested in a real discussion why not try to explain prayer? Explain that the purpose isn't just petition, but also adoration, thanksgiving, and repentence. Explain that prayer is about a relationship, not about an atm. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Personally, I'd let the atheist approach me. Otherwise, they usually aren't open to hearing what you have to say. And, the chances of converting them "on the spot" are unlikely, but you never know when a "seed" you plant will lead to more thought, and be picked up and used by another believer later.

I know there are people who actively proselytize, and who are quite successful.

But, for me, the best witness is the life you lead and the happiness and peace it has brought you. That will draw people to you, and cause them to ask questions, and make them open to what you have to say.

[God Conquers]

How can you study prayer and its effects. Seriously. It is impossible. How do you know what a person was praying, or how, etc. etc.

It's so silly to try to measure a spiritual reality. No one can say why certain patients were helped vs certain hindered. How do you isolate prayer from other variables? What about the benefit to the person praying, rather than the person being prayed for? How about the knowledge that whatever happens is not due to prayer but to God's particular will in the matter? What if God skewed it so as not to compromise people's freedom in believing in Him?

These types of study do not make sense.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Winchester' date='14 April 2010 - 06:42 AM' timestamp='1271252565' post='2093168']
Just say: "Okay." No inflections of any sort. Then pick some random subject and start talking. They're just trying to make you angry. Don't give them what they want.

Alternatively, you can just repeat everything they say.
[/quote]
+JMJ+
this.

[Apotheoun]

I would simply say: "I pray that God enlighten your mind to the truth. Amen."

[cmotherofpirl]

Relationships cannot be quantified, and that drives the atheists crazy. Ask them how they quantify beauty, truth, love .

[Adrestia]

I usually respond, "prayer doesn't change things for you; it changes you for things."

IMHO, it's impossible to understand the power of prayer without experiencing it first hand. However, one must be open to receiving the graces which flow from the Holy Spirit in order to experience the power. Being open requires one to accept the fact that God's response to the prayer may not be what is expected or wanted. If the person is an Atheist, openness will be difficult for them.


a.m.d.g.

[Hilde]

Yeah, trying to measure a prayers impact and then claiming it's irrelevance since they can't measure any difference is logic fail.
How does the "prayer doesn't change things for you; it changes you for things." translate to when you i.e are praying for others, maybe a sick friend who you want to recover?
That's exactly what some of these experiments are about. Trying to show prayer doesn't give a higher probability for recovery. It can be discouraging, but I have faith. And how can they know the people aren't being prayed for? Sometimes I say more general prayers, and others can too i.e for all with cancer and so on.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='tgoldson' date='15 April 2010 - 09:19 AM' timestamp='1271337540' post='2093972']
I usually respond, "prayer doesn't change things for you; it changes you for things."
[/quote]

That is a most excellent response!

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Hilde' date='15 April 2010 - 10:51 AM' timestamp='1271346701' post='2094044']
How does the "prayer doesn't change things for you; it changes you for things." translate to when you i.e are praying for others, maybe a sick friend who you want to recover?
[/quote]

In that respect, it would change you (the person praying) so that it becomes easier for you to accept the fact that your sick friend may not recover (at least in the way that you expect or want). It could open your eyes to the unexpected silver lining. For example, sometimes broken family relationships are healed when someone gets sick; sometimes people return to their faith when they are sick.

[Sirklawd]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='14 April 2010 - 01:42 PM' timestamp='1271266952' post='2093289']
just tell them you are praying for the willpower not to punch them in the face, but you can stop if you want.


[/quote]

hahaha this. its so true sometimes

[tinytherese]

In the end, I don't think that you can argue reason with atheists. The problem isn't their heads, but how hard their hearts are. St. Augustine was brilliant, but in the end, his mother's many years of prayers for his heart to change were answered. St. Monica is just plain awesome. She can defenitely attest to the fact that prayer isn't useless.

I think that people need to get this image of God as a magic genie or Santa Clause out of their heads, as if prayer is simply making a request and if you don't get what you want, then supposedly prayer doesn't work, there is no God, or there is a God, but He doesn't care about us. Prayer always works, it just doesn't always work the way we expect it to. No matter what suffering one endures, there is at least some good that comes from it. I've been reading, Amazing Grace for Those Who Suffer, where ten people give their personal accounts of how great suffering has transformed them and even people around them.