Fbi Destroyed File On Obama's Grandfather

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 April 2010 - 01:10 PM' timestamp='1271178658' post='2092527']My policy in this particular debate is just to stay out. Being a Canadian, I've got no reason to care about your president's birth certificate.
[/quote]
Or lack thereof...

KIDDING....

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='eustace scrubb' date='13 April 2010 - 12:41 PM' timestamp='1271180466' post='2092550']
that is incredibly depressing. i don't see how libertarianism is in any way consistent with the Church. in fact, it's been said by several people in the economic world that the Reformation paved the way for capitalism. and as someone who is not a capitalist, it's shocking to me that it would have as much support as it does on a Catholic message board.

hopefully this won't be an impediment to my receiving spiritual support (of which i have very little). last night i went to the oldest, not to mention most conservative, traditionalist Catholic church in my city with a Catholic friend for the Adoration of the Eucharist. towards the end of it, we had a horrifying experience with the head priest and a friend of my friend, where they attempted to rush me into becoming a priest by fast-talking me. they didn't listen to me and i had to keep repeating myself. the priest said that he HATED Vatican II, didn't see what was so important about fellowship, and it turns out that they don't even let people drink the wine there!!! my Catholic friend asked why and the only answer he was given, despite asking at least twice, was that "it's tradition there." when the head priest finally realized that i was trying to tell him that i felt God leading me to the Ukrainian Eastern Rite, he got very angry and said "that is not Catholic, that is EASTERN! it is Byzantine." he said he had a friend who was a Maronite seminarian or something, but it seemed that he wasn't very approving of the Maronites, which i found entirely disgusting. he even went so far as to say that he didn't even know if the Eastern Rite followed the same catechism!!!!!! meanwhile, his friend, who was pushing my Catholic friend really hard to join the priesthood and was acting all weasely and creepy. when it became clear that they weren't getting what they wanted from us, the meeting ended somewhat abruptly. the friend of the priest went back to the sanctuary with us, grabbed some bulletins for my friend and i and encouraged us to email the priest about setting up RCIA there for me. i left there in a daze, questioning things. the friend of the priest had this blue book that he said to him "would be our new gospel" and was all about Mary. as people who have had visions of Mary, pray the rosary, pray to her regularly, and have a lot of respect for her, my friend and i were very disturbed. while discussing it afterward, i even had a vision of Mary weeping about it while we were discussing it. the Holy Spirit was very present during this vision, too...

all that said, i hope that my politics don't mean that i'll have to go elsewhere online for spiritual support, but if i do, i will. and in which case, i would request advice for that. i think orthodox Catholic theology is right and i'm pro-life, like all of you, but... i'm not a Republican or Libertarian...



wise idea... i may have, unwittingly, stepped into a trap! lol j/k
[/quote]
Wow! So many things here I don't even know where to start responding.
Regarding libertarianism, I'm not sure if what I think of as libertarianism is the same thing as what you think of. Generally I tend towards economic libertarianism and socially conservative with a libertarian element. I think you'd be wrong to say that Catholicism is not compatible with capitalism as a general concept, but that's a whole different debate.
Anyway, regarding your experience at that "traditional" parish... I don't even know what to say about that! That priest sounds like a bit of a nut. For starters, the Ukrainian Catholic Church is every bit as Catholic as the Roman Catholic Church..... did you say Ukrainian Catholic, or just Ukrainian? Maybe he thought you meant Ukrainian Orthodox...... Anyway, no excuse for that strangeness. If I can give some unsolicited advice, I'd avoid that guy at least until you're a lot more secure in what Catholicism means.

[eustace scrubb]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 April 2010 - 02:55 PM' timestamp='1271181301' post='2092561']
Wow! So many things here I don't even know where to start responding.
[/quote]

haha, yeah... sorry about that... there's a lot of things going on right now in my life and last night was just one of them. an ecumenical bible study i go to and have received a lot of support from for the past two years is tonight. it has what may be the extremely strong potential for being ripped apart because of differences on doctrine and some emotional clashes between people who have recently experienced some deep wounds. please pray that what God wants to happen with us will happen and that people's hearts will soften and melt, so whether we disband or not, we will maintain our relationships with all of those who we are close to in it, rather than storming off and becoming bitter... God is doing a great work in us and some of us are extremely vulnerable spiritually at this moment...

[quote]I think you'd be wrong to say that Catholicism is not compatible with capitalism as a general concept, but that's a whole different debate. [/quote]

agreed.

[quote]Anyway, regarding your experience at that "traditional" parish... I don't even know what to say about that! That priest sounds like a bit of a nut. For starters, the Ukrainian Catholic Church is every bit as Catholic as the Roman Catholic Church..... did you say Ukrainian Catholic, or just Ukrainian? Maybe he thought you meant Ukrainian Orthodox...... Anyway, no excuse for that strangeness. If I can give some unsolicited advice, I'd avoid that guy at least until you're a lot more secure in what Catholicism means.
[/quote]

i said "Ukrainian Eastern Rite Catholic." he was taken off-guard by it and asked if i meant Orthodox and i said no. he said "oh, okay," and then proceeded to say that ill-founded nonsense.

and BELIEVE ME, i know better than to EVER... EVER... EVER go back to that place again!!!!!!! it left me confused and scarred, but i am really glad that i had the experience there i did, because there are churches like that around and i needed to know that they exist. plus i needed to see that sometimes there are instances of actual "Mary-worship" and superstition in some places. now i understand why my Protestant friends (and especially my parents!!!!!) are so worried about me and i can, Lord willing... give them some clarity and reassurance on the issue.

btw sorry for hijacking this thread and creating so many others... i'm a very emotional person who tends to talk first and then think later... ;P

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='eustace scrubb' date='13 April 2010 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1271182163' post='2092569']
haha, yeah... sorry about that... there's a lot of things going on right now in my life and last night was just one of them. an ecumenical bible study i go to and have received a lot of support from for the past two years is tonight. it has what may be the extremely strong potential for being ripped apart because of differences on doctrine and some emotional clashes between people who have recently experienced some deep wounds. please pray that what God wants to happen with us will happen and that people's hearts will soften and melt, so whether we disband or not, we will maintain our relationships with all of those who we are close to in it, rather than storming off and becoming bitter... God is doing a great work in us and some of us are extremely vulnerable spiritually at this moment...



agreed.



i said "Ukrainian Eastern Rite Catholic." he was taken off-guard by it and asked if i meant Orthodox and i said no. he said "oh, okay," and then proceeded to say that ill-founded nonsense.

and BELIEVE ME, i know better than to EVER... EVER... EVER go back to that place again!!!!!!! it left me confused and scarred, but i am really glad that i had the experience there i did, because there are churches like that around and i needed to know that they exist. plus i needed to see that sometimes there are instances of actual "Mary-worship" and superstition in some places. now i understand why my Protestant friends (and especially my parents!!!!!) are so worried about me and i can, Lord willing... give them some clarity and reassurance on the issue.

btw sorry for hijacking this thread and creating so many others... i'm a very emotional person who tends to talk first and then think later... ;P
[/quote]
No worries.

One thing that you might find (or might not) is that many years down the road going back to the parish may actually be a positive experience. Something that I've found is that things which seem to be totally ludicrous and beyond the pale actually make more sense later on after some research and learning. Obviously I don't know what happened well enough to say specifically, but it could have been misunderstandings on both sides, and maybe this guy isn't as crazy as he seems.
Anyway, at least keep it in mind in the longer term. You never know.

For instance, if you right now read St. Louis de Montfort's writings on Mary, you may consider them radical and approaching worship. Or you might not. Some people do though. On the other hand, if you were to go back to it after a lot of studying about Mary, then the same person who considered it Mary-worship could very well see the beauty and rightness of what he wrote.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Nihil Obstat

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Libertarianism is a love of liberty, that's all. Some people take it into extreme forms.

As for your experiences with the crazy priest, well, sounds crazy.

[eustace scrubb]

Nihil, point taken and agreed.

[quote name='Raphael' date='13 April 2010 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1271182736' post='2092575']
Libertarianism is a love of liberty, that's all. Some people take it into extreme forms.

As for your experiences with the crazy priest, well, sounds crazy.
[/quote]

Cincinnati is a breeding ground for what could only be described as the most vile and contemptible, and well... i guess "heretical" forms of libertarianism.

and yeah, to use current internet lingo, "crazy priest is crazy." haha

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='eustace scrubb' date='13 April 2010 - 02:24 PM' timestamp='1271183089' post='2092580']
Nihil, point taken and agreed.



Cincinnati is a breeding ground for what could only be described as the most vile and contemptible, and well... i guess "heretical" forms of libertarianism.

and yeah, to use current internet lingo, "crazy priest is crazy." haha
[/quote]
When I say libertarianism, I take freedom as a [i]munus[/i] ([url="http://www.in-laymans-terms.com/2010/01/20/munus-gift-and-duty/"]see my article here[/url]).

Freedom is a gift that allows us to love God and live a moral life. We cannot receive the gift if we do not use it as a duty. Those who abuse freedom never really had freedom at all.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='eustace scrubb' date='13 April 2010 - 12:58 PM' timestamp='1271177900' post='2092506']
i just woke up and i had a really bad night. a REALLY bad night. so pardon my lack of sensitivity here, but do you take Worldnet Daily seriously? these guys are [b]HUGE[/b] supporters of the "birther" movement, which claims that Obama wasn't born in the US. the majority of conservatives have rejected and are embarrassed by that whole thing and FOXnews took Orly Taitz (the main person behind it) to task publically, embarrassing and discrediting her by exposing that she was just part of a fringe movement. do you believe that there's any amount of credibility in the birther movement? if not, then why are you using Worldnet Daily as a source for something?
[/quote]

Yawn. Rant over? Cool.

By "these guys" are you also referring to the article's author? Jerome R. Corsi? He also co-wrote an article entitled "The Left Practices Genocide by Abortion." You can read it [url="http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=16919"]here[/url]. Seems to have a good head on his shoulders.

[HisChildForever]

Here is a list of his articles published on World Net Daily.

http://www.wnd.com/news/archives.asp?AUTHOR_ID=246

Yes, he does include some concerning Obama's citizenship, but he has also wrote on the Shroud of Turin, "Anti-Catholic critics 'framing' pope" (literal article title), healthcare, war, global warming, eugenics, and the economy to name a few. Just because you disagree with his assessment of Obama's citizenship does not mean the man lacks all credibility.

[CatherineM]

I'm a pro-life Democrat, social liberal, fiscal conservative, environmentalist. It should be no surprise that I'm married to a man with schizophrenia with that mess of ideologies.

By the way, I'd also like to see the proof that Obama was born in the US. It's a character issue more than anything. The fact that he is a Socialist isn't a surprise considering he wasn't raised in this country.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='13 April 2010 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1271187463' post='2092638']
Yawn. Rant over? Cool.

By "these guys" are you also referring to the article's author? Jerome R. Corsi? He also co-wrote an article entitled "The Left Practices Genocide by Abortion." You can read it [url="http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=16919"]here[/url]. Seems to have a good head on his shoulders.
[/quote]


Oh yeah

he's very credible

definitly



Yes

[HisChildForever]

Does anyone have a bird cage? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='13 April 2010 - 07:41 PM' timestamp='1271202080' post='2092804']
Does anyone have a bird cage? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
[/quote]

Wait...are you ignoring me?

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='13 April 2010 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1271199501' post='2092775']
I'm a pro-life Democrat, social liberal, fiscal conservative, environmentalist. It should be no surprise that I'm married to a man with schizophrenia with that mess of ideologies.

By the way, I'd also like to see the proof that Obama was born in the US. It's a character issue more than anything. The fact that he is a Socialist isn't a surprise considering he wasn't raised in this country.
[/quote]
You know, I think we share similar beliefs. This country must be getting to you

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='13 April 2010 - 07:41 PM' timestamp='1271202080' post='2092804']
Does anyone have a bird cage? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
[/quote]
lawl. :high five:

[ardillacid]

[quote name='eustace scrubb' date='13 April 2010 - 12:58 PM' timestamp='1271177900' post='2092506']
the majority of conservatives have rejected and are embarrassed by that whole thing and FOXnews took Orly Taitz (the main person behind it) to task publically, embarrassing and discrediting her by exposing that she was just part of a fringe movement.
[/quote]
Living as a saint is a fringe movement

btw, phatmass has a spell checker