Fbi Destroyed File On Obama's Grandfather

[HisChildForever]

Disturbing? Yes.

[quote]In response to a Freedom of Information Act request, the FBI has formally acknowledged a file existed on President Barack Obama's grandfather, Stanley Armour Dunham, that was destroyed May 1, 1997.

The FBI previously released some 600 pages of the FBI file of Frank Marshall Davis, the Chicago-based journalist and poet who as a member of the Communist Party USA retired in Hawaii and befriended Dunham.

Obama frequently sought advice from Davis during the future president's elementary and high school years.[/quote]

[quote][b]Communist ties[/b]

The 600-page FBI file on Davis documents his membership in the Hawaiian Communist Party dating back to the early 1950s.

On Dec. 5, 1956, Davis appeared in executive session before the U.S. Senate Subcommittee investigating "the scope of Soviet activity in the United States," one of the McCarthy-era committees seeking to expose communists considered to be a security threat.

Invoking his Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination, Davis refused to answer a direct question asking if he was then a communist. A year earlier, in 1955, a Commission on Subversive Activities organized by the government of the Territory of Hawaii identified Davis as a member of the Communist Party USA.

The committee singled out several articles Davis published in the Communist Honolulu Record that were critical of the commission.

The commission also found objectionable a 1951 story Davis published, "Hawaii's Plain People Fight White Supremacy," in the November 1951 issue of a New York City communist tabloid.[/quote]

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=139805

[Thy Geekdom Come]

On a similar note:

[url="http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/04/12/family_gets_a_say_on_fbi_kennedy_file/"]Family gets a say on FBI Kennedy file[/url]

[quote]Three FBI officials said the bureau has nearly completed its review of 3,000 pages of Kennedy’s FBI file.

...

Before releasing the documents, however, the FBI says it will give the Kennedys a chance to weigh in. And while the family will not have any legal power to demand that information be withheld, the bureau said it will take into consideration any privacy concerns.[/quote]

[eustace scrubb]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='13 April 2010 - 12:00 AM' timestamp='1271127658' post='2092196']
Disturbing? Yes.

[url="http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=139805"]http://www.wnd.com/i...w&pageId=139805[/url]
[/quote]


i just woke up and i had a really bad night. a REALLY bad night. so pardon my lack of sensitivity here, but do you take Worldnet Daily seriously? these guys are [b]HUGE[/b] supporters of the "birther" movement, which claims that Obama wasn't born in the US. the majority of conservatives have rejected and are embarrassed by that whole thing and FOXnews took Orly Taitz (the main person behind it) to task publically, embarrassing and discrediting her by exposing that she was just part of a fringe movement. do you believe that there's any amount of credibility in the birther movement? if not, then why are you using Worldnet Daily as a source for something?

Edited April 13, 2010 by eustace scrubb

[eustace scrubb]

(double posted, sorry.)

Edited April 13, 2010 by eustace scrubb

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='eustace scrubb' date='13 April 2010 - 11:58 AM' timestamp='1271177901' post='2092507']
(double posted, sorry.)
[/quote]
I agree that the conspiracy theory that Obama was not born in the US is rather silly and overall embarrassing. I think though, that if you look hard enough you may find one or two PMers who are still behind it.

[Semper Catholic]

OBAMA IS A COMMIE THIS PROVES IT!!!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I'm still waiting for proof that he's a US citizen. I don't think it's an unwarranted demand. The American people deserve proof.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' date='13 April 2010 - 01:00 PM' timestamp='1271178046' post='2092512']
OBAMA IS A COMMIE THIS PROVES IT!!!
[/quote]
Right conclusion, wrong premise.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Raphael' date='13 April 2010 - 12:00 PM' timestamp='1271178050' post='2092513']
I'm still waiting for proof that he's a US citizen. I don't think it's an unwarranted demand. The American people deserve proof.
[/quote]
See, I'm fine if some people just want to see the proof. That's understandable. Obviously the problems start where we move past a rational desire for facts, and into more rabid grasping at straws.

[eustace scrubb]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 April 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1271178007' post='2092510']
I agree that the conspiracy theory that Obama was not born in the US is rather silly and overall embarrassing. I think though, that if you look hard enough you may find one or two PMers who are still behind it.
[/quote]


that's incredibly sad.

btw what would you say the political makeup here is? it's obvious that most people here are pro-life, but what's the breakdown on, say, fiscal conservativism and the Religious Right (not moral conservativism, but rather, identifying with Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition and its tactics, etc...)? i just want a rough estimate.

[eustace scrubb]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 April 2010 - 02:04 PM' timestamp='1271178274' post='2092518']
See, I'm fine if some people just want to see the proof. That's understandable. Obviously the problems start where we move past a rational desire for facts, and into more rabid grasping at straws.
[/quote]


the proof already exists. what hawaii issued would, for decades, have been handled exactly the same as a birth certificate anywhere else in the USA. what you need to do to obtain one is, from my understanding, about the same as getting a birth certificate anywhere else. the difference between this and a birth certificate are almost nonexistent. IT IS a birth certificate!!!!

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='eustace scrubb' date='13 April 2010 - 12:04 PM' timestamp='1271178279' post='2092519']
that's incredibly sad.

btw what would you say the political makeup here is? it's obvious that most people here are pro-life, but what's the breakdown on, say, fiscal conservativism and the Religious Right (not moral conservativism, but rather, identifying with Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition and its tactics, etc...)? i just want a rough estimate.
[/quote]
Mostly social conservative, mostly fiscal conservative, with a strong undercurrent of libertarianism. Although most people have a few unique elements to their politican/social ideas.

[quote name='eustace scrubb' date='13 April 2010 - 12:08 PM' timestamp='1271178506' post='2092524']
the proof already exists. what hawaii issued would, for decades, have been handled exactly the same as a birth certificate anywhere else in the USA. what you need to do to obtain one is, from my understanding, about the same as getting a birth certificate anywhere else. the difference between this and a birth certificate are almost nonexistent. IT IS a birth certificate!!!!
[/quote]
My policy in this particular debate is just to stay out. Being a Canadian, I've got no reason to care about your president's birth certificate.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='eustace scrubb' date='13 April 2010 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1271178279' post='2092519']
that's incredibly sad.

btw what would you say the political makeup here is? it's obvious that most people here are pro-life, but what's the breakdown on, say, fiscal conservativism and the Religious Right (not moral conservativism, but rather, identifying with Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition and its tactics, etc...)? i just want a rough estimate.
[/quote]
I agree with Nihil's estimation of the political makeup of PM.

I myself am a socially conscious but socially responsible, fiscally and governmentally subsidiarian, tea party sympathizing, libertarian-leaning conservative.

Regarding governmental roles, I believe in a multi-level government where each level only takes on what the level below it cannot handle. As the father of my family, I claim the right and duty to protect my wife and kids, to provide for them according to my own line of work, and to educate my children as I see fit. For instance, I'm a strong supporter of homeschooling, gun rights (but not excluding gun safety), and the right to work in my chosen field. Those things I cannot accomplish on my own I have the duty of accomplishing with the mutual aid of others. For instance, if I choose to home school, I can't teach my kids calculus, but I can teach them Latin, and I will co-op with other parents who can teach calculus. In this way, a small community school run by parents is established. Those things the local neighborhood cannot handle should pass to the city, then to the state, then to the federal government. They should only be passed to higher levels at the request of the lower levels, so as not to permit dictatorship.

Regarding social security et al., I believe that it should be a local initiative managed by the Church and independent charity organizations. Funds should only be disbursed to those who demonstrate true, authentic, and lasting need, who also do not have the assistance of family. Those who may work but are unemployed should be offered assistance in getting a job and/or training. In exchange for this assistance, those receiving it must sign off on the right of the community to limit what they may use the money to purchase, lest there be abuses. Whenever possible, providers of goods and services should offer their wares for the common good. This should be encouraged at all levels of government. Tax incentives may apply for those who offer goods and services.

Regarding fiscal responsibility, I believe legislators should receive a home owned by the public in which they may live while meeting, and the minimum living costs appropriate to their family. There should be no funds for special benefits in government. Tort reform is absolutely necessary.

Anyway, I have many more thoughts, but basically, I believe in a utopia, but I do think we can work toward it if we live according to the Gospel.

[eustace scrubb]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 April 2010 - 02:10 PM' timestamp='1271178658' post='2092527']
Mostly social conservative, mostly fiscal conservative, with [b]a strong undercurrent of libertarianism.[/b] Although most people have a few unique elements to their politican/social ideas. [/quote]

that is incredibly depressing. i don't see how libertarianism is in any way consistent with the Church. in fact, it's been said by several people in the economic world that the Reformation paved the way for capitalism. and as someone who is not a capitalist, it's shocking to me that it would have as much support as it does on a Catholic message board.

hopefully this won't be an impediment to my receiving spiritual support (of which i have very little). last night i went to the oldest, not to mention most conservative, traditionalist Catholic church in my city with a Catholic friend for the Adoration of the Eucharist. towards the end of it, we had a horrifying experience with the head priest and a friend of my friend, where they attempted to rush me into becoming a priest by fast-talking me. they didn't listen to me and i had to keep repeating myself. the priest said that he HATED Vatican II, didn't see what was so important about fellowship, and it turns out that they don't even let people drink the wine there!!! my Catholic friend asked why and the only answer he was given, despite asking at least twice, was that "it's tradition there." when the head priest finally realized that i was trying to tell him that i felt God leading me to the Ukrainian Eastern Rite, he got very angry and said "that is not Catholic, that is EASTERN! it is Byzantine." he said he had a friend who was a Maronite seminarian or something, but it seemed that he wasn't very approving of the Maronites, which i found entirely disgusting. he even went so far as to say that he didn't even know if the Eastern Rite followed the same catechism!!!!!! meanwhile, his friend, who was pushing my Catholic friend really hard to join the priesthood and was acting all weasely and creepy. when it became clear that they weren't getting what they wanted from us, the meeting ended somewhat abruptly. the friend of the priest went back to the sanctuary with us, grabbed some bulletins for my friend and i and encouraged us to email the priest about setting up RCIA there for me. i left there in a daze, questioning things. the friend of the priest had this blue book that he said to him "would be our new gospel" and was all about Mary. as people who have had visions of Mary, pray the rosary, pray to her regularly, and have a lot of respect for her, my friend and i were very disturbed. while discussing it afterward, i even had a vision of Mary weeping about it while we were discussing it. the Holy Spirit was very present during this vision, too...

all that said, i hope that my politics don't mean that i'll have to go elsewhere online for spiritual support, but if i do, i will. and in which case, i would request advice for that. i think orthodox Catholic theology is right and i'm pro-life, like all of you, but... i'm not a Republican or Libertarian...

[quote]My policy in this particular debate is just to stay out. Being a Canadian, I've got no reason to care about your president's birth certificate.
[/quote]

wise idea... i may have, unwittingly, stepped into a trap! lol j/k

[eustace scrubb]

Raphael,

your views don't seem all that utopian to me. they are quite rational and while i disagree with some of them (mainly in small areas which cause great divergence), i don't see you as a crazy person or utopianist.

btw i very strongly support gun rights and gun safety laws. i think we're probably on the same boat there. and fwiw, i own an NRA cap.