Is It Time To Lower The Drinking Age?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='havok579257' date='21 April 2010 - 11:28 PM' timestamp='1271910521' post='2097795']
i never stated one has to be drunk to be impaired. science shows that even having one beer impairs a person. so unless your referring to only drinking say 1/4 of a beer, then your affected by the alcohol, no matter what people say about being fine after x number of beers.

i said drinking in moderation doesn't work since drinking even one beer impairs a person. again, unless your referring to only drinking 1/4 of a beer. if not, then your argument doesn't work. unless your got evidence to go against everything science says about the effects of alcohol on the human body.
[/quote]
Well clearly both morally and legally the question is one of "how" impaired you are. Arguably a single drink leaves one at a completely functional level. One standard drink brings your blood alcohol level to...... what is it now? Around .03? With a single drink, an average person may not notice any significant impairments. Most people are still entirely rational and perfectly capable of making responsible choices.

It's a matter of degree. Drinking in moderation certainly works because a person can in perfectly normal circumstances retain their ability to think rationally and make responsible choices. I, after having two doubles of liquor within about a two hours (more than I'd usually drink) was more than capable of choosing *not* to drink anymore, lest I become impaired to the point that I cease making responsible choices.


It's all about common sense.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='22 April 2010 - 12:32 AM' timestamp='1271910777' post='2097800']
It's all about common sense.
[/quote]

And what feels right.

Wait...


sry I'm in a weird mood. If I'm too annoying just tell me to go do something productive.

Edited April 22, 2010 by aalpha1989

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='21 April 2010 - 11:34 PM' timestamp='1271910861' post='2097802']
And what feels right.

Wait...


sry I'm in a weird mood. If I'm too annoying just tell me to go do something productive.
[/quote]
If you're bored, I wouldn't mind having an English translation of The Roman Ritual.

Specifically the rite of exorcism as it existed before the revisions of 1999.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='22 April 2010 - 12:37 AM' timestamp='1271911039' post='2097807']
If you're bored, I wouldn't mind having an English translation of The Roman Ritual.

Specifically the rite of exorcism as it existed before the revisions of 1999.
[/quote]

hahaha. I'll get rite on that.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='21 April 2010 - 11:38 PM' timestamp='1271911107' post='2097808']
hahaha. I'll get rite on that.
[/quote]
In return I will write a minimum 1000 word poem singing your praises and mighty accomplishments.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='22 April 2010 - 12:40 AM' timestamp='1271911227' post='2097810']
In return I will write a minimum 1000 word poem singing your praises and mighty accomplishments.
[/quote]

I will remember this promise.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='22 April 2010 - 12:32 AM' timestamp='1271910777' post='2097800']
Well clearly both morally and legally the question is one of "how" impaired you are. Arguably a single drink leaves one at a completely functional level. One standard drink brings your blood alcohol level to...... what is it now? Around .03? With a single drink, an average person may not notice any significant impairments. Most people are still entirely rational and perfectly capable of making responsible choices.

It's a matter of degree. Drinking in moderation certainly works because a person can in perfectly normal circumstances retain their ability to think rationally and make responsible choices. I, after having two doubles of liquor within about a two hours (more than I'd usually drink) was more than capable of choosing *not* to drink anymore, lest I become impaired to the point that I cease making responsible choices.


It's all about common sense.
[/quote]


leaving someone completel functional is a false statement. it leaves a person THINKING they are completely functional. there is a big difference. also a beer's affect is not universal. a beer's effect is different depending upon how big or small a person is, when they last ate, how much sleep they had, if they are a man or women, if they are young or old and so on. so there is no universal rule on how alcohol affects a person.

the simple fact is, even one single beer alters a person's brain chemistry and not in a good way. i am not for any substance or drug unless prescribed by a docotor that alters one's mind. why should we be for a substance that alters people minds? it makes no sense. it only makes sense if you like said substance. its the same as people who say legalize pot or meth or lsd. they say all those can be done in moderation just like people claim about alcohol.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='havok579257' date='21 April 2010 - 11:42 PM' timestamp='1271911355' post='2097813']
leaving someone completel functional is a false statement. it leaves a person THINKING they are completely functional. there is a big difference. also a beer's affect is not universal. a beer's effect is different depending upon how big or small a person is, when they last ate, how much sleep they had, if they are a man or women, if they are young or old and so on. so there is no universal rule on how alcohol affects a person.

the simple fact is, even one single beer alters a person's brain chemistry and not in a good way. i am not for any substance or drug unless prescribed by a docotor that alters one's mind. why should we be for a substance that alters people minds? it makes no sense. it only makes sense if you like said substance. its the same as people who say legalize pot or meth or lsd. they say all those can be done in moderation just like people claim about alcohol.
[/quote]
Like I said before, the recreational drug argument is irrelevant to me personally because I've already recognized my lack of a consistent position.

"Completely functional" is again a matter of degree and common sense. In my case, I was still more than capable of making responsible choices. I was not impaired to the point that I would make poor or immoral choices with greater frequency. To put it clearly, I was more than capable of *using common sense*.
If you lose the ability to use your common sense, then you're way too impaired. In my opinion, immorally impaired. As long as you retain the ability to make use of common sense, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with drinking. Considering you still have your common sense, you're not going to get into a car and drive with your somewhat impaired motor skills and reaction time, precisely because your common sense reminds you that they are at that moment somewhat compromised.

[Marie-Therese]

[quote name='havok579257' date='17 April 2010 - 01:42 AM' timestamp='1271482959' post='2095042']
alcohol, except in places of worship should be illegal for everyone, for everyone.
[/quote]



Back in the 1920s they tried a little thing called Prohibition. That turned out quite poorly. Of course, drunk driving was not so much an issue since there were few cars...but the prohibition of alcohol did result in the exponential growth of organized crime, bootlegging, etc. You could probably make a compelling argument that the organized crime that exists in the US today is a direct result of Prohibition.

There are drunk driving laws in place. I think that there should be harsher penalties for them. However, making alcohol illegal doesn't make alcohol related crime get better. It actually causes it to increase.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='22 April 2010 - 01:06 AM' timestamp='1271912765' post='2097825']


Back in the 1920s they tried a little thing called Prohibition. That turned out quite poorly. Of course, drunk driving was not so much an issue since there were few cars...but the prohibition of alcohol did result in the exponential growth of organized crime, bootlegging, etc. You could probably make a compelling argument that the organized crime that exists in the US today is a direct result of Prohibition.

There are drunk driving laws in place. I think that there should be harsher penalties for them. However, making alcohol illegal doesn't make alcohol related crime get better. It actually causes it to increase.
[/quote]


by your logic, meth realted crimes are only as bad as they are now because its illegal. if meth was made legal, then the crimes would decrease.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='havok579257' date='22 April 2010 - 12:08 AM' timestamp='1271912882' post='2097826']
by your logic, meth realted crimes are only as bad as they are now because its illegal. if meth was made legal, then the crimes would decrease.
[/quote]
Who's to say it wouldn't?

Cases have been made. I don't know with whom I agree yet.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Nihil Obstat

[havok579257]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='22 April 2010 - 12:48 AM' timestamp='1271911728' post='2097816']
Like I said before, the recreational drug argument is irrelevant to me personally because I've already recognized my lack of a consistent position.

"Completely functional" is again a matter of degree and common sense. In my case, I was still more than capable of making responsible choices. I was not impaired to the point that I would make poor or immoral choices with greater frequency. To put it clearly, I was more than capable of *using common sense*.
If you lose the ability to use your common sense, then you're way too impaired. In my opinion, immorally impaired. As long as you retain the ability to make use of common sense, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with drinking. Considering you still have your common sense, you're not going to get into a car and drive with your somewhat impaired motor skills and reaction time, precisely because your common sense reminds you that they are at that moment somewhat compromised.
[/quote]

common sense and alcohol don't work together. alcohol causes common sense to decrease, yet let's the person think they still have thier common sense.

fact is, at the end of the day, alcohol is a mind altering substance. it impairs a person. i believe anything that is a mind altering substance, unless prescribed by a doctor should be illegal. alcohol has negative effects on a person's mind and that's a fact. how much it alters a person is dependent on numerous things and the last person who should be saying how altered alcohol makes a person is the person who is actively drinking alcohol at that moment since their mind is being altered and their decisions are impaired according to the facts.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='22 April 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1271913008' post='2097828']
Who's to say it wouldn't?

Cases have been made. I don't know with whom I agree yet.
[/quote]


meth crimes are bad because its a mind altering attictive substance that causes people to act out of the norm while on the drug. the meth crime rate has absolutly nothing to do with it being illegal. the crime rate is there because of the drug, not because of the law.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='havok579257' date='22 April 2010 - 12:12 AM' timestamp='1271913170' post='2097830']
common sense and alcohol don't work together. alcohol causes common sense to decrease, yet let's the person think they still have thier common sense.

fact is, at the end of the day, alcohol is a mind altering substance. it impairs a person. i believe anything that is a mind altering substance, unless prescribed by a doctor should be illegal. alcohol has negative effects on a person's mind and that's a fact. how much it alters a person is dependent on numerous things and the last person who should be saying how altered alcohol makes a person is the person who is actively drinking alcohol at that moment since their mind is being altered and their decisions are impaired according to the facts.
[/quote]
So are you saying that, in fact, after a single drink a person is rendered incapable of making responsible, moral choices? Are you saying that every single time I have a drink, I am putting myself in a near occasion of sin in which I am liable to make ridiculous, dangerous, irresponsible choices?

Or can a person in fact have a few drinks, then responsibly decide that if they drink anymore they may impair their judgement more than is morally safe, and then consciously choose to stop drinking?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='havok579257' date='22 April 2010 - 12:14 AM' timestamp='1271913269' post='2097832']
meth crimes are bad because its a mind altering attictive substance that causes people to act out of the norm while on the drug. the meth crime rate has absolutly nothing to do with it being illegal. the crime rate is there because of the drug, not because of the law.
[/quote]
Take it up with Stern or King. I'm not inclined to argue for either side at the moment, seeing as how I don't know what my opinion is right now.