Is It Time To Lower The Drinking Age?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='havok579257' date='24 April 2010 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1272133076' post='2099267']
judge the soul of another person? last i checked telling someone something is wrong is not judging their soul. i never stated if you drink you go to hell or you will not make it to heaven. saying something is irresponsible is not judging one's soul. its it wrong to tell someone thier dressed immodestly, or it that considered juding ones soul.

the church does not disgaree with me. show me where the church says one must not only drink alcohol but must disagree with any law that outlaws drinking. that you must be in favor of alcohol consuption. once again your twisting things to make your argument. its the same with people in the ww2 thread. they are twisting chruch teaching to fit their argument.

do you honestly think i have ever cared if my sentances are grammactically correct? its a weak argument to attack grammer in an internt debate board. oh and here we are again insnuating i have problesm with the church and her teaching. this is an example of what i mean by the way you debate. turning something i said into a round about way to attack me or to fit your point.

at the end of the day the church never states that i must approve of alcohol. that i must never agree for it to me made illegal and that i am going against its teachings if i think so. so until you can show me evidence, my stance will not change.
[/quote]
I was counting on my fingers just now. That's five distinct straw man arguments in this post. I'm going out for an hour and a half. Please address your flammable army of scarecrows in the meantime. Kthxbai.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='24 April 2010 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1272133637' post='2099273']
I was counting on my fingers just now. That's five distinct straw man arguments in this post. I'm going out for an hour and a half. Please address your flammable army of scarecrows in the meantime. Kthxbai.
[/quote]


how about your first address how my thoughts on the subject of drinking being illegal goes against church teaching. show me where the church says i have to support legalized alcohol consumption. i'll be waiting.

Edited April 24, 2010 by havok579257

[Ed Normile]

I voted yes, not that I feel any one should drink, especially as it can lead to problems when abused. The reason I voted yes is because in todays society where a twelve year old girl can get an abortion without her parents knowledge, where they will teach your kids about sex and alternative lifestyles and condom usage in schools, where they can prosecute a a 12 year old on murder charges with the death penalty a possibility, where you can go to war and kill or be killed at 18, it just seems out of place that we enforce laws that limit these very youth that are empowered in so many other ways legally.

ed

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='havok579257' date='24 April 2010 - 02:33 PM' timestamp='1272137638' post='2099315']
how about your first address how my thoughts on the subject of drinking being illegal goes against church teaching. show me where the church says i have to support legalized alcohol consumption. i'll be waiting.
[/quote]
Well Scripturally there's zero basis for the immorality of drinking, in fact quite the opposite, as has been demonstrated. Therefore you may not condemn it. You may personally choose not to drink but you may not under any circumstances imply that drinking recreationally is immoral or irresponsible. That would place you squarely outside of Scripture, Tradition, and both past and present discipline.
Finally, keeping this in mind, laws that outlaw drinking must be considered tyrannical, as the government has no business calling what is not immoral, immoral. Such laws would have zero moral authority and are therefore illegitimate.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='24 April 2010 - 12:53 AM' timestamp='1272095637' post='2099103']
the 5 beers thing was a joke. there is really no perceptible change in the way people act after one drink. or two even. at the rate livers process alchohol i could have a drink once an hour all day and no one would notice me acting differently.

and no, you are wrong. smoking pot doesnt make you commit crimes. the only way smoking pot makes you commit crimes is if you think the act of smoking pot is itself a crime. the crimes you commit with illegal drug dealing and buying would be mostly eliminated if the substance wasnt illegal. think prohibition era. istead of a few people drinking beers, they now have to deal with the mob and other violent criminals, or undertake the risky act of making the substance themselves, with risky homemade stills.
that all went away when prohibition stopped. prove me wrong.

same would with making pot legal. then no one would have to deal with mexican drug cartels,individual drug dealers in shady situations, and since it was legal, instead of solving trade disputes and bad business with drive by shootings, you could take your complaints to the police.
[/quote]

my response here to havok was ignored, so reposting.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='24 April 2010 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1272141091' post='2099344']
my response here to havok was ignored, so reposting.
[/quote]
Couldn't hurt. I'm getting worn down responding to his points over and over and over and over again.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='24 April 2010 - 04:20 PM' timestamp='1272140411' post='2099335']
Well Scripturally there's zero basis for the immorality of drinking, in fact quite the opposite, as has been demonstrated. Therefore you may not condemn it. You may personally choose not to drink but you may not under any circumstances imply that drinking recreationally is immoral or irresponsible. That would place you squarely outside of Scripture, Tradition, and both past and present discipline.
Finally, keeping this in mind, laws that outlaw drinking must be considered tyrannical, as the government has no business calling what is not immoral, immoral. Such laws would have zero moral authority and are therefore illegitimate.
[/quote]


if a government were to outlaw alcohol, that would not me immoral and tyrannical. is not tyrannical and immoral for them to outlaw pot, meth, lsd and so on. unless i missed something and the church has come out and said its immoral for america to outlaw these drugs?

you have yet to post scriptures that say one must support alcohol use and making it legal and it is wrong to want alcohol illegal. still waiting for scriptural info on this.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='24 April 2010 - 04:31 PM' timestamp='1272141091' post='2099344']
my response here to havok was ignored, so reposting.
[/quote]


i guess i missed this. i said, if you incease access to the general public to a mind altering drug you increasing the crime rate. fact is, people drive while under the influence of pot. altough right now, that is limited to people who are willing to break the law and buy pot illegally. making it legal to everyone would increaser the number of people who have access to the drug and access to using the drug while driving.

your arguement is flawed. your argument is one that people have put forth a million times. because accoridng to said logic, if everything that was illegal was made legal, then crime would decrease. which doesn't work. anarchy does not work.

[Resurrexi]

Everything Christ did during His earthly life was morally good.
Christ drank alcohol in moderation and even provided alcohol for others to drink in moderation.
Therefore, it is morally good to drink in moderation and to provide alcohol for others to drink in moderation.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='havok579257' date='24 April 2010 - 03:53 PM' timestamp='1272142425' post='2099358']
if a government were to outlaw alcohol, that would not me immoral and tyrannical. is not tyrannical and immoral for them to outlaw pot, meth, lsd and so on. unless i missed something and the church has come out and said its immoral for america to outlaw these drugs?

you have yet to post scriptures that say one must support alcohol use and making it legal and it is wrong to want alcohol illegal. still waiting for scriptural info on this.
[/quote]


[quote name='Resurrexi' date='24 April 2010 - 03:58 PM' timestamp='1272142720' post='2099361']
Everything Christ did during His earthly life was morally good.
Christ drank alcohol in moderation and even provided alcohol for others to drink in moderation.
Therefore, it is morally good to drink in moderation and to provide alcohol for others to drink in moderation.
[/quote]
Yes, this. To say the consumption of alcohol recreationally is immoral is to say that Christ himself acted immorally. Since it is not immoral, it would be tyrannical to outlaw it. Just like how the government in Singapore outlawed chewing gum except for medical purposes. There is no moral authority to that law either.
If you want to reverse two millennia of Catholic teaching, then give me sources that prove alcohol to be immoral and irresponsible to consume. Otherwise, be a teetotaler. I don't honestly care. Just don't arrogate yourself to tell any single other person that your way is more responsible, because the Catholic Church does not agree.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Winchester' date='24 April 2010 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1272130126' post='2099241']
Strunk and White are spinning in their graves.
[/quote]
Is it weird that this is the second time in two days that Strunk and White has come up for me?

Did you know that the White is E.B. White of Charlotte's Web?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='24 April 2010 - 04:24 PM' timestamp='1272144251' post='2099372']
Is it weird that this is the second time in two days that Strunk and White has come up for me?

Did you know that the White is E.B. White of Charlotte's Web?
[/quote]
I just learned that by looking it up yesterday!

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='24 April 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1272145586' post='2099380']
I just learned that by looking it up yesterday!
[/quote]
I suppose that's one way... I learned it by watching dvds of my kids' writing program....

[Norseman82]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='12 April 2010 - 05:04 PM' timestamp='1271106298' post='2091825']
So should the mental age for internet posting...[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif[/img]
[/quote]

So how many people here would be banned?

Edited April 25, 2010 by Norseman82

[Norseman82]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='12 April 2010 - 10:20 PM' timestamp='1271125217' post='2092174']
oh wow, I didn't know any countries had laws like that.
[/quote]

Actually, states had laws like that (prior to the DOT's push to raise the drinking age). I know Wisconsin law said that you could buy beer and wine at 18 but for liquor it had to be 21. Later, only in-state residents could buy beer at 18, since many out-of-staters would to go to Wisconsin to hit the bars.