Favorite Spirituality In A Religious Order

[Cherie]

[quote name='HisChild' date='10 April 2010 - 12:24 PM' timestamp='1270916653' post='2090465']

My first question for you is the 'why' of your decision. You mention you like that the Franciscan spirituality is based on the Incarnation. For those who are unfamiliar with Franciscans, I think it'd be great to hear a little more about not only what you've written but other reasons the Franciscan charism attracts you.

[/quote]

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is the fact that the first creche was made by St. Francis - He loved the Mystery of the Incarnation, and his spirituality is very Christocentric. His writings especially focus on Christ's self-emptying and His Redemption of mankind, so every Franciscan also has a great devotion to Our Lord's Passion (especially since St. Francis was the first recorded Saint to receive the stigmata!) He also had a great devotion to the Most Blessed Sacrament, which is shown in his writings, as well. Ithink the Incarnational aspect of Franciscan spirituality manifests itself mostespecially in outward charity, which is an important aspect of Franciscanspirituality. Since God so loved the world that He sent His only-begotten Son,we are called to imitate this unfathomable love in outward charity, which not only means loving our fellow men, but also a profound appreciation for the beauty of all God's creation. It is also characterized by simplicity in living the Gospel.

Of course when one thinks of Franciscan they think of "poverty," andthat is one aspect I like, as well. It's based very much in the idea of imitating the humility of Christ. Not so much material poverty for laypeople(although that DOES play into it) but especially spiritual poverty - thereliance completely upon God. Material poverty is not an end in itself - itorders one toward that "spiritual poverty", that complete relianceupon God for all of our spiritual and material needs, so that we becomecompletely united to His Will. This also goes back to the focus of St. Francis on Christ's self-emptying -- it's a huge part of his love of poverty.

I've read that the formula that sums up Franciscan spirituality is this: "I live now notI but Christ lives in me."

Of course I love the Blessed Mother dearly, and every Franciscan does too! People are surprised to hear that the Franciscan Order is a Marian Order, but it is true. Mary is the Protectress of the Order - the Portiuncula was placed under the patronage of Our Lady of the Angels by St. Francis. The Rule of the Secular Franciscan Order states, "The Virgin Mary, humble servant of the Lord, was open to every word and call. She was embraced by Francis with indescribable love and declared the protectress and advocate of his family." St. Francis himself was said to have "rendered special praises and poured forth prayers and offered his devotion to the Mother of Jesus - how many and in what ways, it is not humanly possible to tell."

That, and I love the Carmelites for all the reasons HC said.
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[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='HisChild' date='10 April 2010 - 01:24 PM' timestamp='1270916653' post='2090465']
Great topic.

My first question for you is the 'why' of your decision. You mention you like that the Franciscan spirituality is based on the Incarnation. For those who are unfamiliar with Franciscans, I think it'd be great to hear a little more about not only what you've written but other reasons the Franciscan charism attracts you.

As for me, I've always seemed more Carmelite than anything. In fact, all my favorite saints attached to any religious order are Carmelites. Carmel to me is being alone with the Great Alone. It's contemplation. It's silence and solitude. It's removing myself from the passions of the world and immersing myself with the only One that matters. How that is lived from Carmel to Carmel varies greatly. But... I guess if I had to pinpoint more closely my leanings it'd actually be more because of Elijah than any other Carmelite saint's influence, ie: Teresa of Avila or John of the Cross. While they are a few of my favorite 'modern' Carmelites (and to me, any saint from Teresa's Carmelite Reformation until now is modern), my attraction to Carmel stems more from the basic eremitical precepts that our Desert Fathers and Elijah have made 'famous'. Don't get me wrong. I have books upon books from Elizabeth of the Trinity, John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila (Teresa of Jesus), Teresa of the Andes (also Teresa of Jesus), and even have a 3 ft Teresa of Avila statue in my home. I love these saints! But I also have become more self aware to know the reason I'm attracted to Carmel is not because of them. They're just icing on the beautiful cake that is the Carmelite way of life... a way of life that manifests a little differently from place to place, from person to person.

As I read more about Carmel, hermits in general, the Desert Fathers and Mothers, and Eastern monasticism (which in general do not attempt to adopt any particular charism- Dominican, Franciscan, etc.,) , the more I believe the reason I've always been attracted to Carmel is because its focus is more on eremitic or semi-eremitc leanings vs. a firm identity with a particular saint -Francis, Dominic, Augustine, Frances de Sales, Servants of God who've founded the smaller orders, etc.

Thanks for starting this topic. Other responses will be fascinating to read.
[/quote]

I must confess, sometimes (actually, quite often) I am guilty of Carmelite-envy.

I have a lot of admiration for all called to this vocation. It's such an absolutely amazing calling to me. I will always be one of your "fangirls" and prayer-supporters. May God continue blessing you all, as you continue to ascend the heights Mt. Carmel.

[cmaD2006]

Franciscan and Ignatian. I'll come up with explanations soon I promise (gotta get back to taxes , studying , and Church stuff ).

[vee]

[quote name='HisChild' date='11 April 2010 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1270952257' post='2090747']
Well, I'd never thought of Divine Mercy being its own spirituality. I guess I haven't had enough today. When thinking of spirituality I think of all the major Rules the Church has allowed (ie: Benedict, Francis, Augustine, St Albert and of course the [mainly] Eastern Rule of St. Basil). Most of the smaller orders still have one of the Rules (ie: Sisters of Life use the Rule of St. Augustine, etc), although I've spoken to a couple of Sisters throughout my discernment and they say something like although their official Rule is from St.__________ they really don't incorporate so-and-so's spirituality into their daily charism.

So, yeah... speaking of ALL the spiritualities out there in religious life, I'd have to say Carmelite or semi-eremiticism/eremiticism interspersed with Divine Mercy and eschatology. Thanks for pointing this wonderful spirituality out, because apparently I was unable to see the forest for the trees!
[/quote]

I wasnt sure if it counted as its own spirituality or not but since Im so devoted to it I thought Id just mention it anyway and hope it fit!

[aalpha1989]

I think I would add to what has been said about Carmel (unless someone said this already... if so, mea culpa!). I'm absolutely in love with the symbolism of Mt. Carmel itself. Not only as the ultimate refuge to remain in God and away from distractions of the world, but also as Our Lady. Carmelite spirituality matches up nicely with de Montfort's Marian Theology, even if it's not always explicitly stated. I think de Montfort's spiritual director was a Carmelite? I may be mistaken. There's also a painting I think is amazing, but I can't find it. It's St. Joseph with his staff and lilies, and behind him is a man breaking his staff over his knee. It's a Carmelite tradition that this man was in love with Our Lady, and when the dove landed on St. Joseph's staff choosing him as Her spouse, the man broke his staff over his knee and moved to Mt. Carmel where he lived as a hermit. Carmelites I've spoken to even dare to call themselves "other" spouses of Our Lady. This would have surprised me if de Montfort hadn't discussed Blessed Alan de la Roche doing the same thing. Anyway, I love the devotion to Our Lady in Carmel!

Oh yeah, not to mention the Brown Scapular.

[vee]

[url="http://ignatianspirituality.com/what-is-ignatian-spirituality/10-elements-of-ignatian-spirituality/"]This site[/url] gives ten elements of Ignatian spirituality which I would call ten reasons why I like it

Unfortunately there doesnt seem to be such a nice neat list for Carmelite spirituality that I can find so here are two items on my list.

Our Lady`s protection, patronage, and promises. I am one to whom much has been forgiven so I am constantly begging Mary to not let me go back to the person I was before. Oddly enough Im not even enrolled in the brown scapular although Im hoping to buy one and have my spiritual director enroll me the next time I see him.

Love is repaid by love alone (St Therese). My understanding of this goes along these lines. I identify with the woman in Luke 7 41~ who had the higher sum forgiven and thus felt she owed a lot in return. For me that is also intertwined with Hos 2:14 because God in His mercy allured me into the desert to show me I needed forgiveness among other things then when I was ready to ask, and listen to the reply, how could I repay His great love for me I got the answer. Love alone. Thats putting things simply but from the little I know of Carmelite spirituality those two verses are understood and incorporated in a way that I find fits & resonates in my heart, a way that none of the other wonderful spiritualities quite do. It is also not the spirituality I would have picked for myself because I probably would have chosen something easier! Thats where the Ignatian spirituality and its detachment from self and attachment to God comes into play though. I hope all that made sense!

[vee]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='12 April 2010 - 04:37 AM' timestamp='1271011079' post='2091007']
I must confess, sometimes (actually, quite often) I am guilty of Carmelite-envy.

I have a lot of admiration for all called to this vocation. It's such an absolutely amazing calling to me. I will always be one of your "fangirls" and prayer-supporters. May God continue blessing you all, as you continue to ascend the heights Mt. Carmel.
[/quote]

Im at the bottom of the mountain making s`mores kind of hoping God isnt asking me to go any further.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='vee8' date='11 April 2010 - 09:02 PM' timestamp='1271037726' post='2091311']
[url="http://ignatianspirituality.com/what-is-ignatian-spirituality/10-elements-of-ignatian-spirituality/"]This site[/url] gives ten elements of Ignatian spirituality which I would call ten reasons why I like it [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]

Unfortunately there doesnt seem to be such a nice neat list for Carmelite spirituality that I can find so here are two items on my list.

Our Lady`s protection, patronage, and promises. I am one to whom much has been forgiven so I am constantly begging Mary to not let me go back to the person I was before. Oddly enough Im not even enrolled in the brown scapular although Im hoping to buy one and have my spiritual director enroll me the next time I see him.

Love is repaid by love alone (St Therese). My understanding of this goes along these lines. I identify with the woman in Luke 7 41~ who had the higher sum forgiven and thus felt she owed a lot in return. For me that is also intertwined with Hos 2:14 because God in His mercy allured me into the desert to show me I needed forgiveness among other things then when I was ready to ask, and listen to the reply, how could I repay His great love for me I got the answer. Love alone. Thats putting things simply but from the little I know of Carmelite spirituality those two verses are understood and incorporated in a way that I find fits & resonates in my heart, a way that none of the other wonderful spiritualities quite do. It is also not the spirituality I would have picked for myself because I probably would have chosen something easier! Thats where the Ignatian spirituality and its detachment from self and attachment to God comes into play though. I hope all that made sense!
[/quote]

Thank-you for the site link on Ignatian spirituality. Maybe not surprisingly (because my birthday is St. Ignatius's feast day), a lot of it resonated with me, much more than what I've been reading about the spirtuality of other Orders and saints. I know this is heresy here in VS, but I have a very hard time understanding St. Terese, and the whole concept of being "in love" with Christ. Love, yes. But, "in love" feels strange and alien to me. Maybe because I have already experienced the sacrament of marriage to a human man. I strongly doubt that I would be called to be a "bride of Christ."

It's embarassing how ignorant I am about St. Ignatius. I've bookmarked the site for future reading. Thanks again.

Edited April 12, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[vee]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='12 April 2010 - 12:40 PM' timestamp='1271040024' post='2091330']
Thank-you for the site link on Ignatian spirituality. Maybe not surprisingly (because my birthday is St. Ignatius's feast day), a lot of it resonated with me, much more than what I've been reading about the spirtuality of other Orders and saints. I know this is heresy here in VS, but I have a very hard time understanding St. Terese, and the whole concept of being "in love" with Christ. Love, yes. But, "in love" feels strange and alien to me. Maybe because I have already experienced the sacrament of marriage to a human man. I strongly doubt that I would be called to be a "bride of Christ."

It's embarassing how ignorant I am about St. Ignatius. I've bookmarked the site for future reading. Thanks again.
[/quote]


Oh good you found the site helpful. Dont worry about not liking or understanding Therese I know what its like because I was in that group too but she is sneaky and got me anyway. Thats the easy part to say, the hard part is to explain what on earth her point is. I hope someone will be able to do that better than I can but heres my attempt. I think part of what she is getting at involves a lot of thought on the Eucharist and on the cross. Out of love Christ gave himself totally on the cross, and then still now totally at every Mass. Receiving the Eucharist is one way in which we are enabled to respond to that Love because we cant do it alone. So Christ loves us and asks that we give back to Him according to what He knows we can give then helps us to do that too. The comparison to a spousal union is one way of understanding what heaven will be like, total union with God, and I guess consecrated religious are a kind of foreshadowing of that union. LOL ok that probably just made things worse and I think others will be able to answer your question better than I can.

[Cherie]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='11 April 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1271019188' post='2091089']
Oh yeah, not to mention the Brown Scapular.
[/quote]

Brown scapular is AWESOME!

[brightsadness]

Pachomian and Basilian Monastic Spirituality. Also the Hesychasts.

St. Basil set Christian perfectionism as the goal of monastic life. The monks were to practice Christian virtues together, especially love; to practice obedience to a spiritual father; to practice chastity and poverty, and share the common goods of the monastery. [u]After they achieved Christian perfection[/u], they were allowed to come back to the world and help others to achieve Christian perfection. Thus, the monks had the mission of "social workers" as well. St. Basil's institutions, especially his Basileias, which was at the same time an orphanage, a "kitchen for the poor," and a school for the illiterate was in practice run by monks. This was St. Basil's way of utilizing the monastic movement to benefit the mission of the Church in the world.

Edited April 12, 2010 by brightsadness