Rcia

[Sojourner]

I've personally never witnessed one either, but there are denominations which baptize only in Jesus name rather than using a Trinitarian formula.

[St. Catherine]

I had to be baptised again.

Mormon Baptise in the name of the Father, Son , and Holy Ghost. They don't believe in the Trinity though.

[Sojourner]

You were a Mormon? Is your story up here somewhere?

[daugher-of-Mary]

[quote]I've personally never witnessed one either, but there are denominations which baptize only in Jesus name rather than using a Trinitarian formula. [/quote]

At my sister's evangelical church, the pastor alternates between Trinitarian and just baptising in the name of Jesus. My dad told him if he was going to baptise my sister, he had jolly well better do it using the Trinitarian formula. Dad stood next to the pastor in the dunking pool just to make sure.

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Jun 17 2004, 04:38 PM'] I hope you don't regret it, PB... I agree with you 100%-- it's carp....

BTW, a Methodist baptism is indeed valid. [/quote]
I said I'd probably regret it because I was afraid it would lead to a long involved discussion, and I really don't have the time or patience for that...


Oh, a note on baptism in general:

While most mainline Protestant denominations, such as Methodists, use the Trinitarian formula and water, not all do. Increasingly even mainline denominations are baptizing in the name of Jesus only or in the name of "the creator, the redeemer, and the sanctifier." Both formulas are invalid.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jun 17 2004, 09:22 PM'] While most mainline Protestant denominations, such as Methodists, use the Trinitarian formula and water, not all do. Increasingly even mainline denominations are baptizing in the name of Jesus only or in the name of "the creator, the redeemer, and the sanctifier." Both formulas are invalid. [/quote]
Really? I'd never heard of that. Figures in the more liberal churches...

man, is the Great Commission not clear??

[justfran]

^ -_- I guess not

Aaaaanyway...

Meeting with my priest tomorrow (I have to get used to saying this, and my church, etc, heheh) and he's just going to give me a bit of a chat about what i'm up for in rcia. I think he tends to speak really quickly in a Filipino accent, so I reckon a lot of my questions will be along the lines of... "I'm sorry, what did you just say?"
lol but he's cool.

Edited June 18, 2004 by justfran

[justfran]

We chatted for like 50 mins in the presbytery today, he just asked me some basic stuff about my background, etc...
and he gave me one of the spare rosarys that they had in some cupboard somewhere...it smells like it's been there for awhile, but YEAHHHHH I have something to pray with now

[McKenzie]

Good luck with everything, justfran. I was quite excited about my first Rosary, too.

My RCIA class sucked. There were 3 people, including myself. Only 2 of those remained to become Catholic. We were taught by the ex-priest DRE. The classes were very boring and the material was full of liberal lies, so I eventually just gave up reading it. I am thankful for places like phatmass and Onerock.com, lest I believe contraception is ok, there is nothing special about the Eucharist, confession is not necessary, etc.

Edited June 20, 2004 by McKenzie

[Guest shepherd]

I haven't been on this in a while, but thought I would give a go at some of the major thematic issues I've read in this post. Very interesting to me. I just completed the RCIA program at my parish this year, and am currently at an NA Forum on RCIA this weekend, so a lot of these issues we're talking about.

RCIA does have a unified curriculum -- it is the catechesis based on liturgical scriptures (ie, the scriptures read during the Liturgy of the Word during Mass). that's what your dismissals (those of you that got them) are for. This is the primary teaching tool that the Church instructs is to be used during RCIA.

RCIA is not the class that makes you Catholic per se, but prepares you for baptism and/or full initiation into the Church if you have already been baptized (but that's not the ultimate goal). Baptism is the key for those not baptized (it is what brings us into the family of God, begins our new identity, begins our mission as Christians). However, baptism and/or full initiation isn't the ultimate goal of RCIA -- the ultimate goal is discipleship.

For those of us who weren't baptized Catholic as infants, I believe you never really BECOME a Catholic -- at some point you realize you just are one. Being Catholic isn't about what you know or don't know. In fact, most people who are sponsors in RCIA for the first time get as much of an education (or moreso) than the ones seeking full communion with the Church (well, I guess this depends on how good the education of your program is...). Maybe that realization of being Catholic comes to you during your first communion, or during your first mass, or at some point after your confirmation when you're walking around your house and realize you have more crucifixes on your walls than anyone else you know.

FYI, a person who is seeking to join the Church who has not been baptized is referred to as a catechumen, while a person who is already baptized is known as a candidate. The ritual text treats these two groups VERY differently (the first half of the ritual text deals only with the non-baptized, while the second half deals with persons of different circumstances). In the United States, however, we have a number of combined rituals that are used for initiating both catechumens and candidates.

RCIA is all about initiation into the Church, yes, but it is not an education class. Yes, you need to be catechized appropriately (key word - appropriately), but that doesn't mean everyone should be reading the CCC. Catechesis is only one part of what should be every catechumen's/candidate's RCIA experience. If you want to read the CCC, dude, that's cool and all, but it's not a necessity. It's the responsibility of your RCIA catechist to teach you what you need to know. IE, salient theological points revealed through the scriptures. The primary goal of RCIA is to nurture the discipleship of those entering the Church. That's why RCIA doesn't end (or isn't supposed to) at Easter. The final period of RCIA is called mystagogy, the period between Easter and Pentecost, ie, you're supposed to keep meeting during this period. Mystagogy extends throughout the newly initiated's first year (during which they are called a neophyte), and should still be meeting on some kind of regular schedule.

The formal period for all who have not been baptized is that they should remain in the catechumenate for 1 full year. Why? Because the Church tells us that the full mystery of Christ is told to us in the cycle of the liturgical year. For those of us who have already been baptized, it is when the individual candidate is ready. It's up to your pastor to decide when you can be received. It's true that Easter vigil is reserved in the ritual text for baptism/confirmation/Eucharist of the catechumens. There are several recommendations for when to receive candidates other than Easter vigil (eg, Pentecost), but candidates can really be received at any time.

Paragraph 75 of the ritual text gives a fourfold instruction for the education of the initiate: doctrine/catechesis through the liturgical scripture, familiarity with the Christian way of life through the sponsor and the wider Church community, liturgical rites, and apostolic works (ie, spreading the Gospel, witnessing, professing the faith; for example, many programs involve initiates in various social ministries).

All that being said, the RCIA text gives the structure for the implementation, but not the implementation itself. That is left up to the individual diocese and parish. That's why there is no recognizable uniformity in what we experience in RCIA (well, that's one reason). And there IS a good reason for that -- not every diocese/parish can implement RCIA in the same way. For example, the rural parish, where the catechumenate might be quite small in comparison to one in a parish in an urban center. It's really given that leeway because of the logistical problems that might arise because of the difficulties in implementing it in less populous areas (there are whole instructional books written on how to implement RCIA in rural parishes).

However, having read all these posts, I would have to say that it seems RCIA wasn't quite what you thought it would be, which might be okay, sometimes expectations aren't realistic or we don't quite know what the Church intends RCIA to be. But for some, it sounds like your RCIA program might not be extremely well informed on how to implement RCIA in your parish.

I'd like to issue a challenge to you -- fix it. Read the RCIA ritual text. Other suggested reading -- RCIA Transforming the Church by Thomas Morris, and the General Directory for Catechesis. Find out what the true aim of RCIA is. Join your parish's RCIA team and change it for the better. When we recognize shortcomings, it's our responsibility to help out and try to fix it. That's what mission is all about. The Church envisions RCIA as transforming the Church -- it's a reminder of what every Catholic's baptism means, what mission they are called to. From my own experience of my Protestant upbringing, RCIA provides for the Catholic faith what a good old-fashioned tent revival is meant to do -- renew your baptismal calling to live out your Christian mission. You may not have realized it during your own initiation, but your mere presence calls others to remember their own baptism, what it means, and how it calls them to live out Christ's mission.

It also seems especially natural, having completed the journey of initiation to pick back up at the beginning of that road and accompany others on that journey.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Jun 13 2004, 06:49 PM']I am really, really surprised with lack of uniformity of RCIA... with the Catholic Church's emphasis on unity, why not just create a curriculum for everyone to use? You could make it a year long overview of the Bible, the Catholic Church, the CCC and the rubrics... everyone would get the same information, the teachers couldn't cheat. etc.[/quote]
With the publication of the [url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM"]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/url] and the [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_17041998_directory-for-catechesis_en.html"]General Directory for Catechesis[/url], all local catechisms and catechetical materials should be revised in order to conform to the teaching of the Church as it is found in these authoritative Magisterial documents. The legitimate diversity of the particular Churches in approving local catechetical materials suited to the cultural context in which they find themselves cannot impinge upon the unity of the Church's faith as it is expressed in the documents of the Supreme Magisterium.

Edited July 10, 2004 by Apotheoun