Juno Is Not Pro-Life.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='08 April 2010 - 02:11 AM' timestamp='1270703490' post='2089064']
how-dare-you-one-up-me-so

Always good to read your posts!
[/quote]

lol, Jiyoung schools L_D. Awesome.

I agree as well. This is not a family friendly pro-life movie, but it is a pro-life movie, whether Ellen Page wants to admit it. I have referenced it on a regular basis with non-Catholics who have seen the movie as a way to catechize them. It has brought about some great discussions on what true love is. During the whole movie, the whole way, she is never shown true love. Then she experiences it for her own child at the end. Had Juno gotten the abortion it would have been useless for pro-lifers.

[JustJump]

I agree as well. This is not a family friendly pro-life movie, but it is a pro-life movie, whether Ellen Page wants to admit it. I have referenced it on a regular basis with non-Catholics who have seen the movie as a way to catechize them. It has brought about some great discussions on what true love is. During the whole movie, the whole way, she is never shown true love. Then she experiences it for her own child at the end. Had Juno gotten the abortion it would have been useless for pro-lifers.
[/quote]

Definitely a plus one. That's the perfect way of describing it: a non-family-friendly pro-life movie. There are definitely some pro-life aspects to Juno, and yes they are not as pristine as they could be, not even close. Perhaps they weren't even intended to be pro-life? However to discredit the fact that Juno does keep the baby, that she does do something selfless, that she does decide it's a life and that she should bring it into the world...well to me that's got some serious pro-life things in it that you can't ignore. Yes, there is crude humor; yes, there is a sex scene in the movie; yes, Juno is idealistic and unrealistic...

BUT I just want to remind everyone that there are plenty of people that are pro-life and not "pure" as you'd put it. There are plenty of people that use contraceptives, have pre-martial sex, dress not-so-conservatively, don't believe in God, etc. etc. and are [b]still [/b]pro-life. They might not be the majority that goes out and protests, but they do exist. Pro-life is someone that respects life.
I feel like what's happening here is that people are viewing this as very very black and white. On one hand you've got the opinion that this a horrible things because it's tainted with bad things...I'm not going to argue that isn't tainted, because it is. We're all tainted with sin, does that makes us ALL bad?

[Ephrem Augustine]

[quote name='rhetoricfemme' date='07 April 2010 - 02:31 PM' timestamp='1270668695' post='2088618']
Yeah, I saw it when it was in theaters. We went when it was ending its run in the theaters, so it was kind of empty, but since it was an indie movie I'm not entirely sure if it got lots of screen play regardless. Our theater had about 10 people in there, some 20-somethings like us with their parents. The most I could gather from their response was that the 20-somethings got the humor, the parents didn't, but everyone seemed overall happy with the movie itself.

As far as how the parents respond to their daughter having premarital sex and getting pregnant from it, it's not like they just went, "Whatev." They expressed their shock at her behavior, but let her know that they would be there for her during this pregnancy and finding the right home for the child. Her stepmother was very adamant about hers and the baby's health. Basically, they realized that what's done is done, now all we can do is move forward.

Personally, I like the movie. As far as it being a pro life or choice movie, I really think it's neither here nor there. If I had to choose, I'd say that you could consider it a pro-life movie. She's a teenager who made the decision to carry through with a pregnancy that she initially had no intention of having or wanting. That's a big responsibility to take on, and I don't see how it could be made if one doesn't believe the entity inside them to be worth loving and caring for.
[/quote]


[quote name='jiyoung' date='07 April 2010 - 07:38 PM' timestamp='1270687087' post='2088826']
I liked the movie, personally, but I went to public school--I'm used to teen pregnancy, low-brow humor, the works. My school had the highest rate of teen pregnancies in my district, and quite a few people I know had children either during or right after graduation.

It's kind of a unique movie. I don't think it's necessarily "awesome and pro-life," but it's pretty realistic, especially for that genre of humor. People are still people, and they still make mistakes, and things happen. Not every woman who chooses not to have an abortion has a dramatic conversion experience and becomes some sort of pro-life crusader. Sometimes a woman who chose not to have an abortion the first time around might do it the second time, etc. But someone who's saturated in that culture (where teens having sex is nothing new, and the first thought when you get pregnant is where the nearest abortion clinic may be) can still have a change of heart and decide to go through with a pregnancy, and I'm glad it showed that. I also liked the point it made about the infertile woman. I thought the story between the two of them was really sad, but that was actually a part of the movie I really liked--two people who got married for the wrong reasons and around this big event, their marriage implodes. In an ideal world, they would've tried to compromise and work it out, but in an ideal world they might not have even gotten married. So the Jennifer Garner character goes on to be a single mother, but she's just so happy to have a child in the first place. A lot of women with that kind of money and everything might go for IVF/surrogacy/etc, but she chose to adopt. Perhaps that'll remind our generation that even if you don't want your child, someone else out there is desperate for a child to love.

Anyway...I think it's real people in real situations, not something unrealistic and based completely in ideals. Ideally, there would be no children born out of wedlock in the first place. Flawed as the character may be, Juno actually does something selfless by choosing not to abort and to give the child up for adoption, whereas most children her age are completely self-centered and unwilling to do something they don't want to do. It shows how dirty those abortion clinics really are; it shows how dysfunctional the "nice, normal couple" might actually be; it shows what that situation might actually be like.

I really liked the movie, but I wouldn't recommend it as a "pro-life" movie, per se--it's pro-life in that she didn't abort, but it's not an extended pro-life PSA or something. Still, it's not as bad as the rest of the manure that's out there now. At least this one shows that our actions have consequences.
[/quote]

As much as I don't want to be callous to teen pregnancy or teenage sexual activity, there can be ways of dealing with sinfulness that actually lead to healing. To be honest, I have known teens that like to deliberately upset moral minded people precisely because they are so rigid in their moral demands. Does that mean that we shouldn't have clear moral guidelines? No. Juno, at least portrayed people trying to find the right thing to do in a difficult situation, and that is what made the movie so wonderful to me. It was not self-righteous or pretentious, and it was raw and relate-able. It certainly is not a movie for children, and I do not think it purports to be. It certainly isn't a movie for a cause, pro-life, or pro-choice. It never pretends to be. (And yeah I do like Bella better). It certainly isn't trying to push any agenda, and dealing with a story that a lot of people do go through.
Yeah it does fall short of our moral standards as Catholics, but then again, what movie does not? It amazes me, considering where they are coming from, how much good is even in the movie at all.

[SaintOfVirtue]

I find it odd that any movie could be considered "realistic" when the very principle of movie making is utterly opposed to realism. I don't think movies would be interesting in the slightest if they were realistic; imagine if the characters said "uh/like" every other word or talked about the same subjects that we talk about. The conversation in the movie would be dreadfully boring. Truth is we don't go to movies because they are realistic, but because they are an alternate realism designed to create a suspense of disbelief that is more interesting than reality.

I was unfortunate enough to have watched the whole movie, and I didn't like it one bit for the reason stated above. It was fake, it glamorized teenage promiscuity, it did not have a [i]strong[/i] pro-life message, and was a generally unsatisfying film.

[Semper Catholic]

LOL how is Juno realistic?

More like a fairytale.

If I got a girl pregnant in high school I'd be getting the snot pounded out of me by my Mom. Not "Oh Juno it will be ok, lets get some prego vitamins!"

Nor would most girls be looking for a yuppie couple in the classifieds.

[rhetoricfemme]

[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' date='08 April 2010 - 12:43 PM' timestamp='1270745036' post='2089247']
As much as I don't want to be callous to teen pregnancy or teenage sexual activity, there can be ways of dealing with sinfulness that actually lead to healing. To be honest, I have known teens that like to deliberately upset moral minded people precisely because they are so rigid in their moral demands. Does that mean that we shouldn't have clear moral guidelines? No. Juno, at least portrayed people trying to find the right thing to do in a difficult situation, and that is what made the movie so wonderful to me. It was not self-righteous or pretentious, and it was raw and relate-able. It certainly is not a movie for children, and I do not think it purports to be. It certainly isn't a movie for a cause, pro-life, or pro-choice. It never pretends to be. (And yeah I do like Bella better). It certainly isn't trying to push any agenda, and dealing with a story that a lot of people do go through.
Yeah it does fall short of our moral standards as Catholics, but then again, what movie does not? It amazes me, considering where they are coming from, how much good is even in the movie at all.
[/quote]
Well said!

[quote name='Semper Catholic' date='08 April 2010 - 01:23 PM' timestamp='1270747418' post='2089271']
LOL how is Juno realistic?

More like a fairytale.

If I got a girl pregnant in high school I'd be getting the snot pounded out of me by my Mom. Not "Oh Juno it will be ok, lets get some prego vitamins!"

Nor would most girls be looking for a yuppie couple in the classifieds.
[/quote]
Well, not all families are the same as yours. My older sister got pregnant when she was 16 and had my nephew when she was 17. Clearly it wasn't an ideal situation, but my parents never got mad at her. We grew up in a Christian household where it was made clear that premarital sex was not okay, and my mother and sister *generally* had pretty open communication. Alas, she got pregnant. My parents were disappointed that she decided not to wait, and they expressed these things to her, but they also let her know that while she was going to have to work hard to finish school and take care of her child, that they would help her in every way possible. My mother never condemned her, but let her know that all children are blessings no matter how they come to be.

As for the movie, Juno didn't set out to look for a, "yuppie couple," but she just wanted to find the right couple. It's not like she knew precisely where to start.

At some point it should just be seen for what it is. A movie. End.

Edited April 8, 2010 by rhetoricfemme

[Saint Therese]

I do think that sometimes that our language might make it harder for someone who's had an abortion to return to the Church. I mean if all they hear is stuff like what's on here.
But at the same time, people need to hear the truth. There has to be a medium somewhere, where we consider the sinner as well as the sin a just way.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='08 April 2010 - 02:15 PM' timestamp='1270754110' post='2089383']
I do think that sometimes that our language might make it harder for someone who's had an abortion to return to the Church. I mean if all they hear is stuff like what's on here.
But at the same time, people need to hear the truth. There has to be a medium somewhere, where we consider the sinner as well as the sin a just way.
[/quote]
The trouble, I think, is that when we're here on PM, or talking to people with the same beliefs as us, we already know that there are certain things that are understood by both parties, so you don't even need to address them. It's just a given. Most of us wouldn't approach those conversations in the same way with people who don't have that same foundation. Often people don't realize that, so they just don't understand, but because they don't understand, they assume it's because the arguments are poor ones, when in fact we just haven't had the opportunity to start from the start.

[JustJump]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='08 April 2010 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1270754110' post='2089383']
I do think that sometimes that our language might make it harder for someone who's had an abortion to return to the Church. I mean if all they hear is stuff like what's on here.
But at the same time, people need to hear the truth. There has to be a medium somewhere, where we consider the sinner as well as the sin a just way.
[/quote]


We [b]are[/b] the medium. We are here to show compassion, mercy, understanding, and love. We are called to follow Jesus, His teaching, His example, and His way. We aren't following Him if we condemn, point fingers, and judge. We are meant to show the Truth.

[rhetoricfemme]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='08 April 2010 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1270755431' post='2089416']
The trouble, I think, is that when we're here on PM, or talking to people with the same beliefs as us, we already know that there are certain things that are understood by both parties, so you don't even need to address them. It's just a given. Most of us wouldn't approach those conversations in the same way with people who don't have that same foundation.
[/quote]
I see what you're saying. But this isn't a locked forum, and anyone could read these things. I'd be sad if someone imploring Catholicism, looking to change their mind on abortion, or was looking for support with the pregnancy they didn't want came here and read much of this thread. JustJump is correct in that we're to follow Jesus all the way. I know we're all human and get comfortable around one another and might not speak the way we always should, but I just that's just something else for us to work on.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='rhetoricfemme' date='08 April 2010 - 04:20 PM' timestamp='1270761615' post='2089494']
I see what you're saying. But this isn't a locked forum, and anyone could read these things. I'd be sad if someone imploring Catholicism, looking to change their mind on abortion, or was looking for support with the pregnancy they didn't want came here and read much of this thread. JustJump is correct in that we're to follow Jesus all the way. I know we're all human and get comfortable around one another and might not speak the way we always should, but I just that's just something else for us to work on.
[/quote]
Oh, yea. That's what I'm referring to. I'm not saying it's perfect- it often leads to misunderstandings. Constantly.

It's just that it's hard to do any differently.


Maybe we should have a pinned thread on the subject.... I don't even know.

[rhetoricfemme]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='08 April 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1270762427' post='2089507']
Maybe we should have a pinned thread on the subject.... I don't even know.
[/quote]
That sounds like a great idea!

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='rhetoricfemme' date='08 April 2010 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1270763452' post='2089521']
That sounds like a great idea!
[/quote]
I was thinking along the lines of a concise summary of things that we're all taking for granted when we're talking about this sort of thing, especially abortion, then a sort of explanation that we're more than willing to back up to any point of understanding and work from there. Is that what you were thinking as well?

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='08 April 2010 - 02:33 PM' timestamp='1270762427' post='2089507']
Oh, yea. That's what I'm referring to. I'm not saying it's perfect- it often leads to misunderstandings. Constantly.

It's just that it's hard to do any differently.


Maybe we should have a pinned thread on the subject.... I don't even know.
[/quote]

it could be similar to a guide on tradespeak/engineering jargon. ie: "thing-a-ma-whatsit = 42mm deep impact socket"

[rhetoricfemme]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='08 April 2010 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1270775693' post='2089666']
I was thinking along the lines of a concise summary of things that we're all taking for granted when we're talking about this sort of thing, especially abortion, then a sort of explanation that we're more than willing to back up to any point of understanding and work from there. Is that what you were thinking as well?
[/quote]
Yessir.

Who is the authority on making these things happen?