Future Of The Roman Rite

[Formosus]

I am aware that that was the case with the Sarum use. I meant more along the lines of the many other ancient rites that were abandoned in the years following Trent. Perhaps I am just misinformed, but I was under the impression that many rites were abandoned despite thee ability to legally celebrate them. I probably am wrong on this issue.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Formosus' date='08 April 2010 - 12:58 AM' timestamp='1270706287' post='2089088']
I am aware that that was the case with the Sarum use. I meant more along the lines of the many other ancient rites that were abandoned in the years following Trent. Perhaps I am just misinformed, but I was under the impression that many rites were abandoned despite thee ability to legally celebrate them. I probably am wrong on this issue.
[/quote]

No, you're right. However, Deo gratias, the most ancient and venerable of the Western Rites (namely, the Dominican, the Carmelite, and the Ambrosian, among others) were preserved intact.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Formosus' date='08 April 2010 - 12:58 AM' timestamp='1270706287' post='2089088']
I am aware that that was the case with the Sarum use. I meant more along the lines of the many other ancient rites that were abandoned in the years following Trent. Perhaps I am just misinformed, but I was under the impression that many rites were abandoned despite thee ability to legally celebrate them. I probably am wrong on this issue.
[/quote]


[quote name='Resurrexi' date='08 April 2010 - 01:05 AM' timestamp='1270706709' post='2089094']
No, you're right. However, Deo gratias, the most ancient and venerable of the Western Rites (namely, the Dominican, the Carmelite, and the Ambrosian, among others) were preserved intact.
[/quote]
I don't know if I've been led wrongly or not, but from a few things I read I get the impression that to some extent, the rites which were abandoned disappeared for decent reasons. You could even call their disappearance organic development.

Now, I don't know if that's true or not, but it's one opinion I heard.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='08 April 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1270707035' post='2089102']
I don't know if I've been led wrongly or not, but from a few things I read I get the impression that to some extent, the rites which were abandoned disappeared for decent reasons. You could even call their disappearance organic development.
[/quote]

I guess it depends on one's point of view. I, myself, lament some of the post-Tridentine liturgical reforms (and by this I mean the reforms of the 16th century which followed the Council of Trent), while others I find to have been quite necessary and proper.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Resurrexi

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='08 April 2010 - 01:13 AM' timestamp='1270707235' post='2089103']
I guess it depends on one's point of view. I, myself, lament some of the post-Tridentine liturgical reforms, while others I find to have been quite necessary and proper.
[/quote]
This would have been well before those reforms though, right? Like on the scale of hundreds of years.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='08 April 2010 - 01:17 AM' timestamp='1270707447' post='2089105']
This would have been well before those reforms though, right? Like on the scale of hundreds of years.
[/quote]

Well, I'm not sure what you mean.

I do think that some of the ideology behind the 16th century liturgical reforms was flawed. There was among certain reformers a desire to do away with Medieval "excesses" and return to a more "pristine" and "ancient" form of the Liturgy. Although one principal characteristic of the Roman rite is its simplicity in comparison to other rites, I think it is a mistake to take the idea of the Roman rite's simplicity too far.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='08 April 2010 - 01:21 AM' timestamp='1270707687' post='2089107']
Well, I'm not sure what you mean.

I do think that some of the ideology behind the 16th century liturgical reforms was flawed. There was among certain reformers a desire to do away with Medieval "excesses" and return to a more "pristine" and "ancient" form of the Liturgy. Although one principal characteristic of the Roman rite is its simplicity in comparison to other rites, I think it is a mistake to take the idea of the Roman rite's simplicity too far.
[/quote]
Ah, I understand. When you said post-Tridentine, I assumed that you meant after the 'suppression' of the Tridentine rite. My mistake.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='08 April 2010 - 01:29 AM' timestamp='1270708150' post='2089109']
Ah, I understand. When you said post-Tridentine, I assumed that you meant after the 'suppression' of the Tridentine rite. My mistake.
[/quote]

Nah, by "post-Tridentine" I mean "immediately following the Council of Trent".

I support almost none of the changes to the Roman Liturgy in the late 1960s. (The only changes I would have been in support of were a few minor changes to the calendar)

I do not support any of the changes to the Order of the Mass (that is, the constant, unchanging part of the Mass that is always the same). Nor do I think any of the changes to the Order of the Mass would have developed organically.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Resurrexi

[Bennn]

I have a question regarding the Mass said in the vernacular. Has the Holy See officially approved of the Holy Mass said completely in vernacular? I know that Vaticanum II only suggested parts of the Mass to be said in the mothertongue, but that a certain amount of Latin was to be preserved in the Liturgy. However, in most parishes here in Belgium the Priests have abandoned Latin completely from the Liturgy. Is this seen as a liturgical abuse by the Holy See, or not?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I'm very hopeful. I don't think that anyone can be against the principle liturgical call of the Second Vatican Council: full and active participation. Interestingly, I think pretty much anyone and everyone who goes to the EF now is fully and actively participating, at least as much as they can in a language they may not yet be accustomed to using.

The rector of our cathedral, who is also the chaplain of the high school where I work, will be celebrating a Missa Cantata next week for the school Mass. Hopefully this happens more often. I think a lot of our kids will hate it, but I also think some will be drawn to it. We can build from there.

I'm also recommending musical training during our once-weekly "chapel" class, which is more or less a liturgy practicum.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Raphael' date='08 April 2010 - 11:03 AM' timestamp='1270742639' post='2089225']
The rector of our cathedral, who is also the chaplain of the high school where I work, will be celebrating a Missa Cantata next week for the school Mass.
[/quote]

That is really spectacular. I wish the chaplain of my high school would do the same (or have another priest celebrate the Mass for him).

Out of curiosity, are there going to be several extra priests present to assit with the distribution of holy Communion to all the students?

[jeffpugh]

I wish there was more Sarum Rite... they should give that to the Anglicans coming home

On a more serious note, I want to partake in that mass use some day.

[Nihil Obstat]

As soon as the Anglican Catholic Church in Canada is officially Catholic, I'll be able to attend one very close by!

Well... not very close. In the right city though.

[Bennn]

Nice. There are no Anglican churches here so I'm not getting my hopes up. I'd already be happy if the clerici simply followed the rubrics of the Roman Missal.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' date='08 April 2010 - 10:54 PM' timestamp='1270785296' post='2089749']
I wish there was more Sarum Rite... they should give that to the Anglicans coming home

On a more serious note, I want to partake in that mass use some day.
[/quote]

I definitely agree that the Sarum Use would be much better than the Anglican Use. Much better.