Evangelization, Practically Speaking

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='05 April 2010 - 04:36 PM' timestamp='1270503365' post='2087230']
You are so chivalrous! Are you going to be in charge of the gauntlet, or let Jeff do it?

[/quote]
I think that has to be up to him. I'd love to, but the second has no place in the declaration. I'll just be on the sidelines looking menacing.

[Marie-Therese]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='05 April 2010 - 05:37 PM' timestamp='1270503446' post='2087233']
I think that has to be up to him. I'd love to, but the second has no place in the declaration. I'll just be on the sidelines looking menacing.
[/quote]

Your sinister eyes should come in handy.

I will stop now before I completely hijack Cat's thread.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='05 April 2010 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1270502583' post='2087224']
Tell him the mushy things you say about Sacred Music Man like you do with us and how awesome of a boyfriend he is to you. And if he still won't back down...then Jeff and him can get ready to rumble!
[/quote]



Cat, when he's having a bad day, tell him you'll be praying for him at Mass the next time you go. If the homily is interesting or you sang a cool song, mention it. Let the Church attract him more than you do.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='04 April 2010 - 03:54 AM' timestamp='1270371272' post='2086496']

Aside from here on PM i basically have no one to talk religion etc with.
[/quote]

Me, either, Jesus_lol. I'm going to start the process of finding a church (or "religious community" for those of you nitpickers who don't think Anglicans have churches). LOL But, until I do, the only people I can talk religion with are VERY conservative Protestants or atheists. (I have Sister Helen to talk to, but we don't talk theology.) My ex-husband and I used to talk theology a lot, but we no longer keep in contact.

Edited April 5, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='04 April 2010 - 11:48 PM' timestamp='1270442897' post='2086813']
The arguments do all tend to ring with self-righteousness, don't they? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif[/img] I had a friend in junior high and high school that I stopped talking to entirely because she tried to turn every single conversation into a religious or political debate (she was a very liberal Christian). It was croutons. After a while I just wouldn't give her anything to go on.
[/quote]

Careful--Catholic arguments often "ring with self-righteousness," too. (Not you, Nihil, you're pretty good.) Since I know I'm on a Catholic phorum, I give all of you the benefit of the doubt, and know that you mean well, and are not consciously trying to turn me away from Catholicism. (Well, except maybe a few of you who don't like me. LOL) It's a Catholic phorum--I expect you to "talk Catholic."

Edited April 5, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='05 April 2010 - 05:27 PM' timestamp='1270506430' post='2087266']
Careful--Catholic arguments often "ring with self-righteousness," too. (Not you, Nihil, you're pretty good.) Since I know I'm on a Catholic phorum, I give all of you the benefit of the doubt, and know that you mean well, and are not consciously trying to turn me away from Catholicism. (Well, except maybe a few of you who don't like me. LOL) It's a Catholic phorum--I expect you to "talk Catholic."
[/quote]
It can, for sure. I'm just talking from experience. I don't believe I've ever talked to a Protestant about the differences between Protestant and Catholic theology, and not gone away thinking they were a self-righteous butthat. Except maybe on PM.

I'm fairly certain that I don't come off in the same way. I definitely tend towards the side that uses words only when necessary, when we're talking about theology (again, outside PM).

Maybe I just need better friends.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='05 April 2010 - 05:30 PM' timestamp='1270506631' post='2087267']
It can, for sure. I'm just talking from experience. I don't believe I've ever talked to a Protestant about the differences between Protestant and Catholic theology, and not gone away thinking they were a self-righteous butthat. Except maybe on PM.
Maybe I just need better friends. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I used to know some Protestants with whom you could have had an intelligent conversation about the theological differences between Protestantism and Catholicism without the Protestant coming across as a self-righteous butthead. Heck, my ex-husband was really good at it. (Among other degrees, he has an M.A. in theology from a non-Catholic school--although he is Catholic, so that's maybe why he could talk about Protestantism without sounding like a self-righteous butthead--for either point of view.)

Unfortunately, all the intelligent and rational Protestant friends I used to have (and there weren't very many) are long ago and far away. <sigh>

Edited April 5, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='05 April 2010 - 04:36 PM' timestamp='1270503365' post='2087230']



sure is an awkward position to be in...

Hugs!
[/quote]


I'm not sure you know how very true those words are right now.


Thanks for the hugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I need hugs today. heh.

[Socrates]

[quote name='nunsense' date='05 April 2010 - 02:30 AM' timestamp='1270449025' post='2086851']
Me too, but I think sometimes I have a problem with this when dealing with Catholics. I guess I expect them to know their faith and when they start spouting all kinds of liberal theology at me, I get a bit preachy back. I need to learn when to just keep my mouth shut and let God instruct them.
[/quote]
Or perhaps you should consider that God might be using [i]you[/i] to instruct them. God rarely appears to people in a burning bush and infuses with direct knowledge of the truth, but usually relies on human instruments, which should include you and me.

You shouldn't be a jerk or insulting, and there's a time to shake the dust from your feet if they don't respond, but there's certainly nothing wrong with defending the faith and correcting error when it is promoted. And last I checked, [b]preaching[/b] holy apostolic truth was a good thing. In fact, I'd say it's part of our duty as Catholics. But it seems too often we're now afraid to speak out about the faith, lest we be labeled "holier than thou" or "preachy."

Edited April 6, 2010 by Socrates

[missionseeker]

I sometimes have to remind myself that it is a work of mercy.

[Presbylicious]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' date='04 April 2010 - 09:56 PM' timestamp='1270443413' post='2086815']
On Friday night one of my Protestant friends introduced me to her friend that's also Protestant. In one hour he talked so much and had so little substance to his words, I was amazed. He knew I was Catholic yet he made comments like "Catholics do NOT have a Christian nature," or "Catholic priests should be married, because that's why they molest boys!"

He knew so little, yet she was enamored by him. I don't know how!
[/quote] As a Protestant I would be inclined to smack this guy upside the head with a foam-covered bible (all non-violently of course, as I am a pacifist).

In the Canadian experience, some of the worst sexual abuses carried out in the name of Christ have been carried out by members of Protestant churches (though the Roman Church is implicated as well) against the aboriginal people of this country in the so-called 'residential schools'.

Protestants are [i]not [/i]innocent of sexual abuse. The whole Church has her seamless robe stained with this sin. It's enough to make you weep.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Socrates' date='06 April 2010 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1270521554' post='2087391']
Or perhaps you should consider that God might be using [i]you[/i] to instruct them. God rarely appears to people in a burning bush and infuses with direct knowledge of the truth, but usually relies on human instruments, which should include you and me.

You shouldn't be a jerk or insulting, and there's a time to shake the dust from your feet if they don't respond, but there's certainly nothing wrong with defending the faith and correcting error when it is promoted. And last I checked, [b]preaching[/b] holy apostolic truth In fact, I'd say it's part of our duty as Catholics. But it seems too often we're now afraid to speak out about the faith, lest we be labeled "holier than thou" or "preachy."
[/quote]


It is particularly hard with very liberal Catholics. They think they are still Catholics, but they are living lives and holding beliefs that are just not in alignment with what the Church teaches. And if I ignore what they are telling me then I feel as if I am supporting or encouraging what they are doing/believing. But when I try to show them where they might be going wrong (as kindly as possible), I sometimes get a very violent reaction. One person went ballistic on me and wrote back to tell me she had blocked all my emails and that she was even thinking of writing to my spiritual director to tell him that I was judging her (which is kind of funny in a way because he is a trad Latin Mass priest) but it was sad that she reacted so badly because it ended all dialogue.

Once I tried to get my Catholic sister-in-law to see that receiving Communion when she goes to Mass on the rare occasion is not really right when she never goes for most of the year or goes to Confession, and she got furious as well and told me that she had been a Catholic since before I was born and who was I to tell her how to live her faith, etc.... so I never brought it up again, but I did wonder if I should have just kept my mouth shut or not. It wasn't my business, but I went to Mass with her on a couple of occasions and it just felt so wrong that she would receive in a state of mortal sin. What does one do? Just keep quiet? I have, ever since then, but it is very hard for me to see Catholics who don't realize how beautiful and special the Church is, and who aren't faithful to her themselves. Sigh.

Where is the line, can someone tell me? I don't want to look at the speck in my brother's eye while I have a log in mine. Should I just set an example and not ever speak up? Sometimes I think that it is my duty for the sake of their immortal soul, but then I wonder if I am just being a busybody and it is between them and God. I am curious about this and hope this doesn't hijack the thread.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='nunsense' date='05 April 2010 - 10:12 PM' timestamp='1270523523' post='2087420']
It is particularly hard with very liberal Catholics. They think they are still Catholics, but they are living lives and holding beliefs that are just not in alignment with what the Church teaches. And if I ignore what they are telling me then I feel as if I am supporting or encouraging what they are doing/believing. But when I try to show them where they might be going wrong (as kindly as possible), I sometimes get a very violent reaction. One person went ballistic on me and wrote back to tell me she had blocked all my emails and that she was even thinking of writing to my spiritual director to tell him that I was judging her (which is kind of funny in a way because he is a trad Latin Mass priest) but it was sad that she reacted so badly because it ended all dialogue.

Once I tried to get my Catholic sister-in-law to see that receiving Communion when she goes to Mass on the rare occasion is not really right when she never goes for most of the year or goes to Confession, and she got furious as well and told me that she had been a Catholic since before I was born and who was I to tell her how to live her faith, etc.... so I never brought it up again, but I did wonder if I should have just kept my mouth shut or not. It wasn't my business, but I went to Mass with her on a couple of occasions and it just felt so wrong that she would receive in a state of mortal sin. What does one do? Just keep quiet? I have, ever since then, but it is very hard for me to see Catholics who don't realize how beautiful and special the Church is, and who aren't faithful to her themselves. Sigh.

Where is the line, can someone tell me? I don't want to look at the speck in my brother's eye while I have a log in mine. Should I just set an example and not ever speak up? Sometimes I think that it is my duty for the sake of their immortal soul, but then I wonder if I am just being a busybody and it is between them and God. I am curious about this and hope this doesn't hijack the thread.
[/quote]

That's part of what the thread is about

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='nunsense' date='05 April 2010 - 11:12 PM' timestamp='1270523523' post='2087420']
It is particularly hard with very liberal Catholics. They think they are still Catholics, but they are living lives and holding beliefs that are just not in alignment with what the Church teaches. And if I ignore what they are telling me then I feel as if I am supporting or encouraging what they are doing/believing. But when I try to show them where they might be going wrong (as kindly as possible), I sometimes get a very violent reaction. One person went ballistic on me and wrote back to tell me she had blocked all my emails and that she was even thinking of writing to my spiritual director to tell him that I was judging her (which is kind of funny in a way because he is a trad Latin Mass priest) but it was sad that she reacted so badly because it ended all dialogue.

Once I tried to get my Catholic sister-in-law to see that receiving Communion when she goes to Mass on the rare occasion is not really right when she never goes for most of the year or goes to Confession, and she got furious as well and told me that she had been a Catholic since before I was born and who was I to tell her how to live her faith, etc.... so I never brought it up again, but I did wonder if I should have just kept my mouth shut or not. It wasn't my business, but I went to Mass with her on a couple of occasions and it just felt so wrong that she would receive in a state of mortal sin. What does one do? Just keep quiet? I have, ever since then, but it is very hard for me to see Catholics who don't realize how beautiful and special the Church is, and who aren't faithful to her themselves. Sigh.

Where is the line, can someone tell me? I don't want to look at the speck in my brother's eye while I have a log in mine. Should I just set an example and not ever speak up? Sometimes I think that it is my duty for the sake of their immortal soul, but then I wonder if I am just being a busybody and it is between them and God. I am curious about this and hope this doesn't hijack the thread.
[/quote]
It's interesting how some of these "liberal" Catholics react so violently against certain judgement. One would think a true Christian would be open to some criticism and be willing to consider another person's "judgement" and see if that really reflects on one's life (not close up and hide!). I guess (because of the protestantism -- this is not a bash, but a fact) the issue of "private faith" has penetrated society, so if someone "feels" they are good in God's eyes, that cannot be questioned, and the person will feel comfortable living his or her life as he or she has been.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='05 April 2010 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1270502583' post='2087224']
Tell him the mushy things you say about Sacred Music Man like you do with us and how awesome of a boyfriend he is to you. And if he still won't back down...

then Jeff and him can get ready to rumble!
[/quote]


actually, Jeff and I are no longer dating. we were just trying to keep it private. But we'd both appreciate prayers