Muslims Try To Pray In Spanish Cathedral

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='09 April 2010 - 08:19 PM' timestamp='1270801190' post='2089851']
but be careful not to injure yourself. take it slow, bring lunch and drink plenty of water.
[/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='09 April 2010 - 06:43 PM' timestamp='1270849414' post='2090175']
[url="http://www.quranicstudies.com/articles/peace-in-the-quran/does-the-quran-teach-violence.html"]Violence & the Quran[/url]

I did a search for violence in the Quran. There are biased sites for and against. The one above seems reasonably neutral and draws some parallels between the Bible & the Quran. Yes there are many passages in the Bible which can be biased to advocate violence. And certainly there is a case for it. Jesus said "offer your left cheek." "Give your cloak as well." A bit impractical if a drug crazed thug wants to stick you with his knife. And most Christians would agree that we should defend our faith if attacked. If someone wants to cut off our head we can't offer the other one because we don't have another. If someone wants to turn our Church into a gaming den then we will not offer out buildings as well. Of course we will defend it with blood if necessary. I still think Jesus would expect us to try peaceful means first. If that fails then we can resort to violence and then go to confession with a conscience clear that we tried our best.


They are able to do this because the quotes don't clearly advocate violence, they can be bent either way depending on what you want to see. The same can be done and often is with the Bible, unfortunately.


So did God, either directly or indirectly. God created everything. There is evil existing in creation therefore God created evil or at least the possibility of it depending on how you look at it.
[/quote]
Mark I know you are trying , but you are simply wrong on both counts. I will respond tomorrow when I am not holding a grandbaby.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='09 April 2010 - 05:43 PM' timestamp='1270849414' post='2090175']
They are able to do this because the quotes don't clearly advocate violence, they can be bent either way depending on what you want to see. The same can be done and often is with the Bible, unfortunately. [/quote]

Which is why, if you want a clear and honest look at Islam, you have to go to its founder Muhammad. Muhammad is their prophet, the messenger of their god Allah. Muhammad told the people "this is what Allah wants" and the people listened. Many of them [i]still[/i] listen. Those are the Muslims who blow themselves up in the middle of crowded streets, who force little girls into marriages with grown men, who murder their wives/sisters/daughters for bringing "shame" to the family ("honor" killings), who preach hatred and spread lies about America (for starters), who call for the conversion of the non-Muslim world by any means necessary, who impose their beliefs on others and throw fits when others "impose" their beliefs on them (note the quotations - Muslims cry religious discrimination whenever and wherever they please AND GET AWAY WITH IT), who treat women like second-class citizens, who in Islamic countries give the death penalty to any man or woman caught participating in sodomy, who are allowed to beat their wives, who...must I continue?

[quote] So did God, either directly or indirectly. God created everything. There is evil existing in creation therefore God created evil or at least the possibility of it depending on how you look at it.
[/quote]

This is NOT Catholic theology.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='10 April 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1270859674' post='2090258']
Mark I know you are trying , but you are simply wrong on both counts. I will respond tomorrow when I am not holding a grandbaby.
[/quote]
Yes some people think I'm very trying. LOL.

So far these Muslim threads have appeared to be people who are anti Muslim full stop. Those opposing are only advocating neutrality and the idea that we think Jesus would want us to try to live together in peace. It's not right against left or Black against white. It's stereotyping an entire group of humans on human bad behaviour which is of course found in all groups to some extent, verses moderation and separating good from bad which also can be done with humans in general. In other words these complaints really should be directed at humanity not just Islam. However I will look forward to your response, but I doubt you could prove or convince me that we are wrong on these things. I have put some of my ideas to priests, none of which has been able to fault them. But my mind is always open to new things.

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 April 2010 - 04:52 PM' timestamp='1270875133' post='2090327']
Which is why, if you want a clear and honest look at [s]Islam[/s], [b]Humanity[/b] you have to go to its founder [s]Muhammad[/s]. [b]Human nature[/b] [s]Muhammad[/s] [b]The sin of Adam[/b] is their prophet, the messenger of their god . [s]Muhammad[/s] [b]satan[/b] told the people "this is what God wants" and the people listened. Many of them [i]still[/i] listen. Those are the [s]Muslims[/s] [b]humans[/b] who blow themselves up in the middle of crowded streets, who force little girls into marriages with grown men, who murder their wives/sisters/daughters for bringing "shame" to the family ("honor" killings), who preach hatred and spread lies about America (for starters), who call for the conversion of the [s]non-Muslim[/s] people who don't follow what they want (power) by any means necessary, who impose their beliefs on others and throw fits when others "impose" their beliefs on them (note the quotations - [s]Muslims[/s] people cry [s]religious[/s] discrimination whenever and wherever they please AND GET AWAY WITH IT), who treat women like second-class citizens, who in [s]Islamic[/s] [b]undeveloped[/b] countries give the death penalty to any man or woman caught participating in sodomy, who are allowed to beat their wives, who...must I continue?
[/quote]
I could also go on about paedophile priests, cruel nuns abusing orphans. Parents who make there children sit with their hands out to be whipped because Jesus wants them to suffer as he did to name a few. And Yes Christianity has had and still does have some very horrifying sins on it's hands. You are naive if you think otherwise.

[quote]who preach hatred and spread lies about America[/quote]
Lots of people do this, it's called the 'tall poppy syndrome'! Jealousy! Americans are very patriotic and always like to be best at everything and come across as arrogant and proud. I suppose we all are but it's just that Americans appear more so and as a super power in some ways are superior which gets up peoples nose.


[quote]This is NOT Catholic theology.
[/quote]
??? Catholics believe in satan. Our RCIA graduates professed non alliance with it. Baptism is an exorcism. satan is evil. God created everything including satan. You will need to explain yourself dear. Without satan I would be free of sin. satan is more powerful than I so therefore I fall and will die because of it. BUT Jesus is my saviour and rescues me from satans clutches. I've seen definitive proof of this.
I always think satan tries to create propaganda against what it sees as its greatest threat. That is why Catholicism is attacked so vigorously.

[quote]who force little girls into marriages with grown men
[/quote]
A common practice in Biblical times. I understand Mary was fairly young. a quick search yielded 13 or 14 when she gave birth to Jesus. Arranged marriages are or have been practised up until recently and most likely still do in some Christian countries.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='10 April 2010 - 05:33 AM' timestamp='1270888401' post='2090355']
Yes some people think I'm very trying. LOL.

So far these Muslim threads have appeared to be people who are anti Muslim full stop. Those opposing are only advocating neutrality and the idea that we think Jesus would want us to try to live together in peace. It's not right against left or Black against white. It's stereotyping an entire group of humans on human bad behaviour which is of course found in all groups to some extent, verses moderation and separating good from bad which also can be done with humans in general. In other words these complaints really should be directed at humanity not just Islam. However I will look forward to your response, but I doubt you could prove or convince me that we are wrong on these things. I have put some of my ideas to priests, none of which has been able to fault them. But my mind is always open to new things.


I could also go on about paedophile priests, cruel nuns abusing orphans. Parents who make there children sit with their hands out to be whipped because Jesus wants them to suffer as he did to name a few. And Yes Christianity has had and still does have some very horrifying sins on it's hands. You are naive if you think otherwise.


Lots of people do this, it's called the 'tall poppy syndrome'! Jealousy! Americans are very patriotic and always like to be best at everything and come across as arrogant and proud. I suppose we all are but it's just that Americans appear more so and as a super power in some ways are superior which gets up peoples nose.



??? Catholics believe in satan. Our RCIA graduates professed non alliance with it. Baptism is an exorcism. satan is evil. God created everything including satan. You will need to explain yourself dear. Without satan I would be free of sin. satan is more powerful than I so therefore I fall and will die because of it. BUT Jesus is my saviour and rescues me from satans clutches. I've seen definitive proof of this.
I always think satan tries to create propaganda against what it sees as its greatest threat. That is why Catholicism is attacked so vigorously.


A common practice in Biblical times. I understand Mary was fairly young. a quick search yielded 13 or 14 when she gave birth to Jesus. Arranged marriages are or have been practised up until recently and most likely still do in some Christian countries.
[/quote]
Brick wall syndrome.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='10 April 2010 - 04:33 AM' timestamp='1270888401' post='2090355']
So far these Muslim threads have appeared to be people who are anti Muslim full stop.[/quote]

Anti-ISLAM.

[quote] I could also go on about paedophile priests, cruel nuns abusing orphans. Parents who make there children sit with their hands out to be whipped because Jesus wants them to suffer as he did to name a few. And Yes Christianity has had and still does have some very horrifying sins on it's hands. You are naive if you think otherwise. [/quote]

Except such people are not following in the footsteps of Christ, are they? Those who carry out atrocities in the name of Islam are modeling themselves after Muhammad, who was responsible for many atrocities.

[quote] ??? Catholics believe in satan. Our RCIA graduates professed non alliance with it. Baptism is an exorcism. satan is evil. God created everything including satan. You will need to explain yourself dear. Without satan I would be free of sin. satan is more powerful than I so therefore I fall and will die because of it. BUT Jesus is my saviour and rescues me from satans clutches. I've seen definitive proof of this.
I always think satan tries to create propaganda against what it sees as its greatest threat. That is why Catholicism is attacked so vigorously. [/quote]

One, do NOT call me "dear." Thanks.
Two, God created the angels. Some of the angels rebelled against God (the end result being evil). God knew they would rebel but did not force them to, or create them to. God created Lucifer but He created the ANGEL, not the DEVIL. Lucifer chose to become evil, God had nothing to do with it.
Three, as I said earlier, your line of thought is NOT in line with the Holy Catholic Church.

[quote] A common practice in Biblical times. I understand Mary was fairly young. a quick search yielded 13 or 14 when she gave birth to Jesus. Arranged marriages are or have been practised up until recently and most likely still do in some Christian countries.
[/quote]

You have the same tactics as Muslims who try to defend child brides. Very interesting.

Except the children being married off are as young as four and five years old. You think four and five is the same as thirteen or fourteen? Give me a break.

Moreover, Mary was respected and cherished. St. Joseph honored her and her purity, giving up intimacy so she could remain abstinent and chaste her entire life.

Do you want to compare that scenario to one from Islam? Okay, how about Muhammad, who practicing "thighing" with Aisha when she was six years old (masturbating against her inner thighs) and then had sexual intercourse with her when she was nine years old.

Are they still the same thing, Mark?

Edited April 10, 2010 by HisChildForever

[Saint Therese]

In times past, people often married around the age of 12 and upwards because people didn't live as long as they do today; a person's life expectancy, if he were lucky, might be 30.

[Hassan]

Mark. Don't cast your pedals before swine. Or vitriolic racists

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Hassan' date='11 April 2010 - 09:49 AM' timestamp='1270936198' post='2090608']
Mark. Don't cast your pedals before swine. Or vitriolic racists
[/quote]

I do have this sense of futility and even the dream of people moderating their opinions even slightly seems just a dream. But my main purpose is that this forum advertises it's self as representing Catholicism. I am deeply concerned that people, Atheists, Muslims or any people searching for Christ will come here and think this (Catholicism) is not where Jesus dwells. But thank you sincerely for your concern.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Mark of the Cross

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Hassan' date='10 April 2010 - 06:49 PM' timestamp='1270936198' post='2090608']
Mark. Don't cast your pedals before swine. Or vitriolic racists
[/quote]
Well now, we're criticizing a religion so racist isn't the right word. Be precise!

Some variation on supremacist might work better. Catholic Supremacist, Christian Supremacist. You could go with Islamophobe but that's so...trite, don't you think?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Hassan' date='10 April 2010 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1270936198' post='2090608']
Mark. Don't cast your pedals before swine. Or vitriolic racists
[/quote]
Are you drunk? I read your last ten posts or so today. You're making weird spelling errors and are less coherent than usual.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[b]The Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Second Vatican Council ([i]Lumen Gentium[/i] 16).[/b]

"The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one, merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind."

"Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation."


[b]Pope John Paul II, [i]Address at Omayyad Mosque[/i] (2001)[/b]

"It is important that Muslims and Christians continue to explore philosophical and theological questions together, in order to come to a more objective and comprehensive knowledge of each others’ religious beliefs. Better mutual understanding will surely lead, at the practical level, to a new way of presenting our two religions not in opposition, as has happened too often in the past, but in partnership for the good of the human family...
For all the times that Muslims and Christians have offended one another, we need to seek forgiveness from the Almighty and to offer each other forgiveness. Jesus teaches us that we must pardon others’ offences if God is to pardon us our sins (cf. Mt 6:14)."

[Lilllabettt]

Islamic prayers:

[quote]"Send Thy peace, O Lord, which is perfect and everlasting, that our souls may radiate peace. Send Thy peace, O Lord, that we may think, act, and speak harmoniously. Send Thy peace, O Lord, that we may be contented and thankful for Thy bountiful gifts. Send Thy peace, O Lord, that amidst our worldly strife we may enjoy thy bliss. Send Thy peace, O Lord, that we may endure all, tolerate all in the thought of thy grace and mercy. Send Thy peace, O Lord, that our lives may become a divine vision, and in Thy light all darkness may vanish."

"O My Generous Master!
You created this servant of Yours and
brought him into being from a drop of water.
I do not even have the right to say I love You,
and yet I do love You. I always remember You.
I know that even my being able to remember You
is also due to Your guidance. My mentioning Your
Name of Majesty left me dizzy, bewildered, and
amazed.
Is it possible to imagine anyone in this world
loving the Divinity and not becoming intoxicated with
such affection? So great a blessing is affection that
even if its possessor should stray into the wilderness,
the fire of his love would not allow him to feel the heat of
the desert.
Should the lover fall into the fire, the heat of his
love would extinguish that fire. The fire of love would cause
the poles and glaciers to melt. If mountains and boulders were
piled upon the back of the lover, the fire of his love would
prevent his feeling the weight of the load. Affection makes a
person forget about hunger and thirst, and keeps him on the
road of love."

‘The true servants of the Most Merciful are those who behave gently and with humility on earth, and whenever the foolish quarrel with them, they reply with words of peace.’
(al-Furqan 25: 63)[/quote]

Clearly these people are blood thirsty and violent.
Clearly they worship the Devil.
Clearly Almighty God would be filled with wrath and displeasure, should any of these prayers be addressed to Him by a Muslim in a Catholic Cathedral.

The problem these days is the incivility of people. Muslims are guests in a Catholic church, and so you'd think they'd be extremely considerate, being careful to treat the situation very delicately, and not burden their hosts with any unnecessary requests. Christians, you'd think, would be striving to make their guests feel welcome and comfortable, anticipating their needs and fulfilling them as far as they possibly can.

But civility is a lost art these days. And so to avoid being taken advantage of, hosts and guests act like perfect pigs.

Oh well.

You know the Episcopalian cathedral here has a sign out that says "All are Welcome."

[Laudate_Dominum]

[b]Pope Paul VI, [i]Ecclesiam Suam[/i] 107[/b]
"Then [we refer] to the adorers of God according to the conception of monotheism, the Muslim religion especially, deserving of our admiration for all that is true and good in their worship of God."


[b]Second Vatican Council, [i]Nostra Aetate[/i] 3[/b]
"The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth (Cf. St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir [Al-Nasir], King of Mauretania PL, 148. 451A.), who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God's plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting.

"Over the centuries many quarrels and dissensions have arisen between Christians and Muslims. The sacred Council now pleads with all to forget the past, and urges that a sincere effort be made to achieve mutual understanding; for the benefit of all men, let them together preserve and promote peace, social justice and moral values."


[b]Pope John Paul II, [i]Address to the Catholic community of Ankara Turkey[/i], (1979)[/b]
"My brothers, when I think of this spiritual heritage (Islam) and the value it has for man and for society, its capacity of offering, particularly in the young, guidance for life, filing the gap left by materialism, and giving a reliable foundation to social and juridical organization, I wonder if it is not urgent, precisely today when Christians and Muslims have entered a new period of history, to recognize and develop the spiritual bonds that unite us, in order to preserve and promote together for the benefit of all men, 'peace, liberty, social justice and moral values' as the Council calls upon us to do (Nostra Aetate 3)."


[b]Pope John Paul II, [i]address to the bishops of North Africa on their ad limina visit[/i], (1981)[/b]
"One of the essential characteristics of the life of the Church in Maghreb is, in fact, to be invited to enter upon a constructive Islamic-Christian dialogue. I am anxious to encourage you along this difficult way, where failure may occur, but where hope is even stronger. To maintain it, strong Christian convictions are necessary. More than elsewhere, it is highly desirable that Christians should take part, as you encourage them to do, in a permanent catechesis which completes a biblical renewal course, or more exactly a reading of the Word of God in the Church, with the help of theologians and truly competent spiritual teachers.

"But it can never be said enough that such a dialogue is in the first place a question of friendship; one must know how to give dialogue the time for progress and discernment. That is why it is surrounded by discretion out of a concern to be considerate with regard to the slowness of the evolution of mentalities.

"The seriousness of commitment in this dialogue is measured by that of the witness lived and borne to the values in which one believes, and, for the Christian, to him who is their foundation, Jesus Christ. That is why it conceals the convictions of the one with whom we are speaking, and an unshakeable attachment to one's faith. This sincere dialogue and this demanding witness involve a part of spiritual abnegation: how can we fail to proclaim the hope that we have received of taking part in this wedding feast of the Lamb at which the whole of mankind will be gathered one day?

"It is also necessary - among other things, in order to preserve this dialogue in its truth - for this deep hope to remain without yielding to any faintheartedness born of uncertain doctrine. Such a spirit is embodied in the first place in disinterested service with a view to fraternity participating in the development of these countries and to sharing the aspirations of their people. I am anxious to stress here the quality of the work carried out by so many of those cooperators in the discretion and dedication, and by those who supported them."


[b]Pope John Paul II, [i]address to the bishops of Senegal on their ad limina visit[/i], (1982)[/b]
"In this country, which is mainly Muslim, you take care to keep alive in Christians the sense of friendship, a friendship whose sincerity is measured by the effectiveness of the actions it inspires. I do not want to dwell here on this important question of the dialogue between Christians and Muslims, with which I quite recently dealt in my conversations with your confreres in North Africa. But I am anxious to point out the importance of the initiative you have taken in common in this field, in the framework of the Regional Episcopal Conference of West Africa, by creating a special commission to promote such a dialogue.

"I know you are beginning to perceive the fruits of this mutually agreed upon decision; it gradually makes possible a real renewal of mentalities, which facilitates the beneficial transition from ignorance to knowledge of the Muslim faith, from indifference to opening, from rejection to dialogue."


[b]Pope John Paul II , [i]address to the young Muslims of Morocco[/i], (1985)[/b]
"Christians and Muslims have many things in common, as believers and as human beings. We live in the same world, marked by many signs of hope, but also by multiple signs of anguish. For us, Abraham is a model of faith in God, of submission to his will and of confidence in his goodness. We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection. . . .

"God asks that we should listen to His voice. He expects from us obedience to His holy will in a free consent of mind and heart.

"It is therefore toward this God that my thought goes and that my heart rises. It is of God himself that, above all, I wish to speak with you; of him, because it is in him that we believe, you Muslims and we Catholics. I wish also to speak with you about human values, which have their basis in God, these values which concern the blossoming of our person, as also that of our families and our societies, as well as that of the international community. The mystery of God–is it not the highest reality from which depends the very meaning which man gives to his life? And is it not the first problem that presents itself to a young person, when he reflects upon the mystery of his own existence and on the values which he intends to choose in order to build his growing personality? . . .

"First of all, I invoke the Most High, the all-powerful God who is our Creator. He is the origin of all life, as he is at the source of all that is good, of all that is beautiful, of all that is holy. . . .

"He made us, us men, and we are from him. His holy law guides our life. It is the light of God which orients our destiny and enlightens our conscience. . . .

"Yes, God asks that we should listen to his voice. He expects from us obedience to his holy will in a free consent of mind and of heart.

"That is why we are accountable before him. It is He, God, who is our judge; He who alone is truly just. We know, however, that his mercy is inseparable from His justice. When man returns to Him, repentant and contrite, after having strayed into the disorder of sin and the works of death, God then reveals Himself as the one who pardons and shows mercy.

"To Him, therefore, our love and our adoration! For His blessing and His mercy, we thank Him, at all times and in all places. . . .

"Man is a spiritual being. We believers know that we do not live in a closed world. We believe in God. We are worshipers of God. We are seekers of God.

"The Catholic Church regards with respect and recognizes the equality of your religious progress, the richness of your spiritual tradition. . . .

"I believe that we, Christians and Muslims, must recognize with joy the religious values that we have in common, and give thanks to God for them. Both of us believe in one God, the only God, who is all justice and all mercy; we believe in the importance of prayer, of fasting, of almsgiving, of repentance and of pardon; we believe that God will be a merciful judge to us all at the end of time, and we hope that after the resurrection He will be satisfied with us and we know that we will be satisfied with him.

"Loyalty demands also that we should recognize and respect our differences. Obviously the most fundamental is the view that we hold onto the person and work of Jesus of Nazareth. You know that, for Christians, Jesus cause them to enter into an intimate knowledge of the mystery of God and into the filial communion by His gifts, so that they recognize Him and proclaim Him Lord and Savior.

"Those are the important differences which we can accept with humility and respect, in mutual tolerance; this is a mystery about which, I am certain, God will one day enlighten us.

"Christians and Muslims, in general we have badly understood each other, and sometimes, in the past, we have opposed and often exhausted each other in polemics and in wars.

"I believe that today, God invites us to change our old practices. We must respect each other, and we must stimulate each other in good works on the path of God.

"With me, you know the reward of spiritual values. Ideologies and slogans cannot satisfy you nor can they solve the problems of your life. Only spiritual and moral values can do it, and they have God at their foundation.

"Dear young people, I wish that you may be able to help in building a world where God may have first place in order to aid and to save mankind. On this path, you are assured, of the esteem and the collaboration of your Catholic brothers and sisters whom I represent among you this evening."


[b]Pope John Paul II, [i]To Christians in Bangladesh[/i], (1986)[/b]
"You must try to show your Muslim brethren and the followers of other religious traditions that your Christian faith, far from weakening your sense of pride in your homeland and your love for her, helps you to prize and respect the culture and heritage of Bangladesh. It inspires you to face the challenges of the present day with love and responsibility. . . .

"The Catholic Church is committed to a path of dialogue and collaboration with the men and women of goodwill of every religious tradition. We have many spiritual resources in common which we must share with one another as we work for a more human world. Young people especially know how to be open with each other and they want a world in which all the basic freedoms, including the freedom of religious belief, will be respected.

"Sometimes Christians and Muslims fear and distrust one another as a result of past misunderstanding and conflict. This is also true in Bangladesh. Everyone, especially the young, must learn to always respect one another's religious beliefs and to defend freedom of religion, which is the right of every human being."


[b]Pope John Paul II, [i]To the delegation of the World Islamic Call Society[/i], (1990)[/b]
"The topic of your discussion is a timely one. Since we are believers in God - who is goodness and perfection - all our activities must reflect the holy and upright nature of the one whom we worship and seek to obey. For this reason, also in the works of mission and da'wah [summons], our action must be founded upon a respect for the inalienable dignity and freedom of the human person created and loved by God. Both Christians and Muslims are called to defend the inviolable right of each individual to freedom of religious belief and practice. There have been in the past, and there continue to be in the present, unfortunate instances of misunderstanding, intolerance and conflict between Christians and Muslims, especially in circumstances where either Muslims or Christians are a minority or are guest workers in a given country. It is our challenge as religious leaders to find ways to overcome such difficulties in a spirit of justice, brotherhood and mutual respect. Hence, by considering the proper means of carrying out mission and da'wah you are dealing with an issue which is important both for religious and for social harmony.

"You have also been addressing the difficulties faced today by those who believe in God in their efforts to proclaim his presence and his will for mankind. As believers, we do not deny or reject any of the real benefits which modern developments have brought, but we are convinced nevertheless that without reference to God modern society is unable to lead men and women to the goal for which they have been created. It is here too that Christians and Muslims can work together, bearing witness before modern civilization to the divine presence and loving Providence which guide our steps. Together we can proclaim that he who has made us has called us to live in harmony and justice. May the blessing of the Most High accompany you in your endeavors on behalf of dialogue and peace."


[b]Pope John Paul II, [i]Message to the faithful of Islam at the end of the month of Ramadan[/i], (1991)[/b]
"To all Muslims throughout the world, I wish to express the readiness of the Catholic Church to work together with you and all the people of good will to aid the victims of the war and to build structures of a lasting peace not only in the Middle East, but everywhere. This cooperation in solidarity towards the most afflicted can form the concrete basis for a sincere, profound and constant dialogue between believing Catholics and believing Muslims, from which there can arise a strengthened mutual knowledge and trust, and the assurance that each one everywhere will be able to profess freely and authentically his or her own faith.

"Injustice, oppression, aggression, greed, failure to forgive, desire for revenge, and unwillingness to enter into dialogue and negotiate: these are merely some of the factors which lead people to depart from the way in which God desires us to live on this planet. We must all learn to recognize these elements in our own lives and societies, and find ways to overcome them. Only when individuals and groups undertake this education for peace can we build a fraternal and united world, freed from war and violence.

"I close my greeting to you with the words of one of my predecessors, Pope Gregory VII who in 1076 wrote to Al-Nasir, the Muslim Ruler of Bijaya, present day Algeria: 'Almighty God, who wishes that all should be saved and none lost, approves nothing in so much as that after loving Him one should love his fellow man, and that one should not do to others, what one does not want done to oneself. You and we owe this charity to ourselves especially because we believe in and confess one God, admittedly, in a different way, and daily praise and venerate him, the creator of the world and ruler of this world.'

"These words, written almost a thousand years ago, express my feelings to you today as you celebrate 'Id al-Fitr, the Feast of the Breaking of the Fast. May the Most High God fill us with all His merciful love and peace."


[b]Pope John Paul II, [i]To Islamic leaders of Senegal[/i], (1992)[/b]
"It is natural that believers in God should meet in friendship and sharing. Christians and Muslims, together with the followers of the Jewish religion, belong to what can be called 'the tradition of Abraham.' In our respective traditions Abraham is called 'the intimate friend of God' (in Arabic, Al-Khalil). He receives this title because of his flawless faith in God. . . .

"As two religious communities who strive to submit ourselves without reserve to the will of God, we Christians and Muslims should live together in peace, friendship and cooperation. I am happy to note that, since the arrival of the first Christians in this land, the people of Senegal have given the world a good example of this sharing life.

"In May 1991, in a joint message to their fellow Christians, the Catholic bishops of Senegal called attention to the 'real efforts at understanding and dialogue between Christians and Muslims, the meeting between religious leaders' which have been undertaken in your country. They noted that the young people have worked together to build cemeteries, mosques and churches; that school children engage in healthy emulation to make their schools places of peace, forgiveness and fraternity; that adults work together to improve the life of the community spirit of the country. I would like to support and encourage all these efforts at building a harmonious society because I am convinced that this is the way of God. Our Creator and our final judge desires that we live together. Our God is a God of peace, who desires peace among those who live according to His commandments. Our God is the holy God who desires that those who call upon Him live in ways that are holy and upright. He is a God of dialogue who has been engaged from the very beginning of history in a dialogue of salvation with the humanity which He created. This dialogue continues in the present day, and will go on until the end of time.

"We Christians and Muslims must be people of dialogue. As I have often said, and as the bishops of Senegal have repeated, this commitment to dialogue means, first of all, 'a dialogue of life', a positive acceptance, interaction and cooperation by which we bear active witness, as believers, to the ideals to which God has called us."


[b]Pope John Paul II, [i]to the ambassador of the Arab Republic of Egypt[/i], (2000)[/b]
". . . I have an especially warm recollection of my meeting with Grand Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi. We both expressed the wish for a new era of religious and cultural dialogue between Islam and Christianity. It is in this context, Mr. Ambassador, that I am particularly pleased that you have spoken of Egypt as a land where unity and harmony are greatly valued and where differences of religion are seen not as barriers but as a means of mutual enrichment in rendering service to the nation. I trust most sincerely that this will always be the case, and that the difficulties that have arisen from time to time will be overcome, especially in view of the widespread willingness and positive conditions for interreligious dialogue and cooperation which can be found in Egypt.

"In a world deeply marked by violence, it is bitterly ironic that even now some of the worst conflicts are between believers who worship the one God, who look to Abraham as a holy patriarch and who seek to follow the Law of Sinai. Each act of violence makes it more urgent for Muslims and Christians everywhere to recognize the things we have in common, to bear witness that we are all creatures of the one merciful God, and to agree once and for all that recourse to violence in the name of religion is completely unacceptable. Especially when religious identity coincides with cultural and ethnic identity it is a solemn duty of believers to ensure that religious sentiment is not used as an excuse for hatred and conflict. Religion is the enemy of exclusion and discrimination; it seeks the good of everyone and therefore ought to be a stimulus for solidarity and harmony between individuals and among peoples. . . ."

[b]Pope John Paul II, [i]Novo Millennio Ineunte[/i] 55, January 6, 2001[/b]
"It is in this context (of openness to God's grace) also that we should consider the great challenge of interreligious dialogue to which we shall still be committed in the new millennium, in fidelity to the teachings of the Second Vatican Council (Cf. Second Vatican Council, declaration Nostra Aetate). . . . This dialogue must continue. In the climate of increased cultural and religious pluralism which is expected to mark the society of the new millennium, it is obvious that this dialogue will be especially important in establishing a sure basis for peace and warding off the dread specter of those wars of religion which have so often bloodied human history. The name of the one God must become increasingly what it is: a name of peace and a summons to peace."


[b]Pope John Paul II, [i]on his arrival in Syria[/i], May 5, 2001[/b]
"I am thinking too of the great cultural influence of Syrian Islam, which under the Umayyad caliphs reached the farthest shores of the Mediterranean. Today, in a world that is increasingly complex and interdependent, there is a need for a new spirit of dialogue and cooperation between Christians and Muslims. Together we acknowledge the one indivisible God, the Creator of all that exists. Together we must proclaim to the world that the name of the one God is 'a name of peace and a summons to peace' (Novo Millennio Ineunte, 55)!"


[b]Pope John Paul II, [i]address before the Angelus[/i], November 18, 2001[/b]
"We know that prayer acquires power if it is joined with fasting and almsgiving. The Old Testament taught this, and from the earliest centuries Christians have accepted and applied this lesson, especially at the times of Advent and Lent. For their part, the Muslim faithful have just begun Ramadan, a month dedicated to fasting and prayer. Soon, we Christians will begin Advent, to prepare ourselves in prayer, for the celebration of Christmas, the day of the birth of "the Prince of Peace.'

"At this appropriate time, I ask Catholics to make next 14 December [the last Friday of Ramadan and the third Friday of Advent] a day of fasting, to pray fervently to God to grant to the world stable peace based on justice, and make it possible to find adequate solutions to the many conflicts that trouble the world. May what is saved by fasting be put at the disposal of the poor, especially those who at present suffer the consequences of terrorism and war.

"I would also like to announce that it is my intention to invite the representatives of the world religions to come to Assisi on 24 January 2002, to pray for the overcoming of opposition and the promotion of authentic peace. In particular, we wish to bring Christians and Muslims together to proclaim to the world that religion must never be a reason for conflict, hatred and violence. In this historic moment, humanity needs to see gestures of peace and to hear words of hope.

"As I said 15 years ago, when announcing the meeting of prayer for peace, which was held in Assisi the following October: 'It is urgent that a common invocation rise to heaven from earth, to beg from Almighty God, in whose hands is the destiny of the world, the great gift of peace, the necessary condition for every serious endeavor at the service of humanity's real progress'."

[Laudate_Dominum]

just curious to see how ppl respond to those quotes.