Muslims Try To Pray In Spanish Cathedral

[Lumiere]

[quote name='cruciatacara' date='06 April 2010 - 09:25 PM' timestamp='1270603537' post='2088088']
Jesus threw the moneychangers out of the temple. I wonder how he would have handled muslims who came to pray there - I know the laws forbid this but I just wonder what he would have thought about it all - interesting idea.
[/quote]

Seeing as how the Muslims pray to Jesus' father, the God of Abraham, our God and father, I think he would be more welcoming than the people who have commented on this post have been thus far.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Selah' date='09 April 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1270770182' post='2089598']
[quote]It's a great idea except that Christians don't force their religion on others[/quote]
I guess you've never met a hardcore fundie street preacher, have you?
[/quote]

I suppose I should have specified that it is [u]a principle of Christianity[/u] but of course you are correct there are 'Christians' who try to coerce people into what they deem is correct. How many denominations frequently attack Catholicism? No doubt the work of satan to try to lead people away from the true faith! So yes there are many good Christians who don't follow Christ's teaching.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Mark of the Cross

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Lumiere' date='08 April 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1270772048' post='2089612']
Seeing as how the Muslims pray to Jesus' father, the God of Abraham, our God and father, I think he would be more welcoming than the people who have commented on this post have been thus far.
[/quote]

Except they explicitly reject the Holy Trinity by believing that God is One Person, not Three - the Catholic Church teaches that the God of Abraham is in reality Three Persons. If you told a Muslim that he was inadvertently worshiping Jesus Christ, he would deny it and say that Allah is one, not three in one.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 April 2010 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1270774878' post='2089655']
Except they explicitly reject the Holy Trinity by believing that God is One Person, not Three - the Catholic Church teaches that the God of Abraham is in reality Three Persons. If you told a Muslim that he was inadvertently worshiping Jesus Christ, he would deny it and say that Allah is one, not three in one.
[/quote]

Well... but can you say for sure that there is a difference, just because the description is different. As I understand it we cannot explain the trinity, so just considering one God is not really saying he isn't three or for that matter if you count all the souls with Jesus in them he could be billions.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='08 April 2010 - 09:33 PM' timestamp='1270776806' post='2089681']
Well... but can you say for sure that there is a difference, just because the description is different. As I understand it we cannot explain the trinity, so just considering one God is not really saying he isn't three or for that matter if you count all the souls with Jesus in them he could be billions.
[/quote]

Muslims blatantly reject the Divinity of Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 April 2010 - 01:41 PM' timestamp='1270777287' post='2089686']
Muslims blatantly reject the Divinity of Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity.
[/quote]

Yes I agree that that is a major difference and is why we don't see each other at Mass on Sunday, but being more direct. If someone says that their God says to behead infidels unless they commit to Islam, then I would conclude that their God is in fact satan. But if someone says that their God teaches love and kindness and all things good and that evil is bad then I should think not only have they described our God but he must in fact be the same God since both agree that their can be but one. And I think stereotyping any group by the behaviour of a minority is something which we should endeavour to avoid. There are enough evil people in the world to dislike without including good people just because of some tag that associates them. Very few priests are paedophiles, it's only the media that makes it seem like Catholicism is sexually depraved.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='08 April 2010 - 10:02 PM' timestamp='1270778571' post='2089690']
If someone says that their God says to behead infidels unless they commit to Islam, then I would conclude that their God is in fact satan. [/quote]

[quote] But if someone says that their God teaches love and kindness and all things good and that evil is bad then I should think not only have they described our God but he must in fact be the same God since both agree that their can be but one.
[/quote]

A Muslim who fully adheres to the teachings and practices of Muhammad would agree with your first quote. A Muslim who is "modern" or "liberal" (also called "Westernized") would agree with your second.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 April 2010 - 02:08 PM' timestamp='1270778935' post='2089698']
A Muslim who fully adheres to the teachings and practices of Muhammad would agree with your first quote.
[/quote]

I upset some Muslims with a query about this and was [u]kindly[/u] asked to withdraw it. I assumed they deny it since they were so offended by the suggestion, maybe I was talking to your 'Westernised Muslims'. Can you give some reference to a valid source supporting your claim?

[Maximilianus]

[quote name='Lumiere' date='08 April 2010 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1270772048' post='2089612']
Seeing as how the Muslims pray to Jesus' father, the God of Abraham, our God and father, I think he would be more welcoming than the people who have commented on this post have been thus far.
[/quote]

Rastafarians, Mormons, JW, and Westboro Baptist pray to the God of Abraham. Lets let the Rastafarians smoke some ganga while the priest incenses the altar, or let Fred Phelps give a sermon at your local Cathedral.

It is a Catholic Cathedral for Catholic worship an non-Catholics should recognize and respect this. It's not mean or uncharitable to point that out, it's common sense.

I would say the same thing if this story was about a bunch of Catholics wanting to pray at the Lala Mustafa Pasa mosque in Famagusta (formerly St. Patrick's Cathedral).

Edited April 9, 2010 by Maximilianus

[JustJump]

I'm not big on all the PC croutons now a days either.

But to me it's a simply matter of treating others the way you want to be treated. I have no problem if a Muslim wanted to pray in a Cathedral. (I do agree that pulling out a mat and the likes is a bit much and that'd it be fine to ask them not to do that.)

But honestly I think it's ridiculus to say that Muslims worship satan. Sure there are extremists and fundamentalists out there, just like there are in every religion. And yes, currently I'd say there are a lot of extremists and fundamentalists in Islam, but they are not a majority. I think that needs to be kept in mind. Muslims believe in one God, the God of Abraham. They believe that Mohommad was the final prophet. I don't understand how that is worshipping satan? Any Muslim that hurts someone else, just like any Christian, in the name of God, is obviously not following God.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='08 April 2010 - 10:43 PM' timestamp='1270781002' post='2089718']
I upset some Muslims with a query about this and was [u]kindly[/u] asked to withdraw it. I assumed they deny it since they were so offended by the suggestion, maybe I was talking to your 'Westernised Muslims'. Can you give some reference to a valid source supporting your claim?
[/quote]

Go read every thread I have made on Islam. I and others have posted numerous quotes from Islamic holy texts, articles, videos, and news reports that all point to the same thing.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 April 2010 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1270781854' post='2089725']
Go read every thread I have made on Islam. I and others have posted numerous quotes from Islamic holy texts, articles, videos, and news reports that all point to the same thing.
[/quote]

I've never seen an authoritative one only quotes of the suss ones, but I will keep my eyes and mind open.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='08 April 2010 - 07:57 PM' timestamp='1270781854' post='2089725']
Go read every thread I have made on Islam.
[/quote]

but be careful not to injure yourself. take it slow, bring lunch and drink plenty of water.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Lumiere' date='08 April 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1270772048' post='2089612']
Seeing as how the Muslims pray to Jesus' father, the God of Abraham, our God and father, I think he would be more welcoming than the people who have commented on this post have been thus far.
[/quote]
Look, my point, *again*, is that Muslims expect the West to accommodate them. That's fine. We in the West are pretty accommodating. However, what gets up my nose is the lack of reciprocity. Christians can be and are put to death in majority Muslim countries for having the temerity to practice their faith. Therefore, *again*, when Christians can pray in the Hagia Sophia, *then* Muslims can pray in the former-mosque-now-cathedral in question.

[JustJump]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' date='09 April 2010 - 11:03 AM' timestamp='1270825403' post='2089947']
Look, my point, *again*, is that Muslims expect the West to accommodate them. That's fine. We in the West are pretty accommodating. However, what gets up my nose is the lack of reciprocity. Christians can be and are put to death in majority Muslim countries for having the temerity to practice their faith. Therefore, *again*, when Christians can pray in the Hagia Sophia, *then* Muslims can pray in the former-mosque-now-cathedral in question.
[/quote]


-Curious, why do you feel that Muslims expect the West to accommodate them?

-Second, what good will it do to wait for them to let us pray in the Hagia Sophia? If two sides stand still refusing to budge, well then they're stuck there each waiting for the other to cave. What harm is there in letting them pray? I don't see how waiting for them to let us pray in the Hagia Sophia is very productive...