Muslims Try To Pray In Spanish Cathedral

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' date='04 April 2010 - 03:01 AM' timestamp='1270306870' post='2086014']
I think Muslims SHOULD pray in the cathedral. As long as they begin " + In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" then move on to the Our Father, Hail Mary, and Glory Be.


[/quote]

It's a great idea except that Christians don't force their religion on others. We believe that Jesus wants us to come to him out of love and thus free choice. So first we should welcome them to practice their belief and to offer them love as neighbours. From this we will hope that they will see the true Christ in us and come to believe.

'Even Pharisees love their family and friends, but I say to you love your enemy.' Very hard I suppose to love a suicide bomber who has blown up your home and family but is it so difficult to love the peaceful Muslims of the world, some of whom have been known to protect Christian neighbours from the evil Muslims who in truth are servants of satan.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='05 April 2010 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1270507558' post='2087278']
It's a great idea except that Christians don't force their religion on others. We believe that Jesus wants us to come to him out of love and thus free choice. So first we should welcome them to practice their belief and to offer them love as neighbours. From this we will hope that they will see the true Christ in us and come to believe.

'Even Pharisees love their family and friends, but I say to you love your enemy.' Very hard I suppose to love a suicide bomber who has blown up your home and family but is it so difficult to love the peaceful Muslims of the world, some of whom have been known to protect Christian neighbours from the evil Muslims who in truth are servants of satan.
[/quote]
For me, the issue is the blatant hypocrisy. The West is expected to show all kinds of consideration to Muslims, while Christians can literally be put to death for practicing their faith in majority-Muslim countries. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. When Christians can pray in the Hagia Sophia, *then* Muslims can pray in this cathedral.

[cruciatacara]

well maybe we can love them but just tell them that in our church they have to realize that Jesus is there so they can't do things their way. Maybe if they just came in and knelt or sat in a pew, but not pull out their mats and do their own thing.

Jesus threw the moneychangers out of the temple. I wonder how he would have handled muslims who came to pray there - I know the laws forbid this but I just wonder what he would have thought about it all - interesting idea.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='cruciatacara' date='06 April 2010 - 09:25 PM' timestamp='1270603537' post='2088088']
well maybe we can love them but just tell them that in our church they have to realize that Jesus is there so they can't do things their way. Maybe if they just came in and knelt or sat in a pew, but not pull out their mats and do their own thing.

Jesus threw the moneychangers out of the temple. I wonder how he would have handled muslims who came to pray there - I know the laws forbid this but I just wonder what he would have thought about it all - interesting idea.
[/quote]
Look, if a Muslim prays silently in a church, who's to know? Again, the issue for me is the hypocrisy, the bullying and hectoring, the assertion that we in the the West should make all kinds of concessions to Muslim sensibilities but God forbid - literally, from a Muslim perspective - that a Christian wear a cross or a women show her face, let alone her arms or legs, in a majority Muslim country.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='cruciatacara' date='07 April 2010 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1270603537' post='2088088']
well maybe we can love them but just tell them that in our church they have to realize that Jesus is there so they can't do things their way. Maybe if they just came in and knelt or sat in a pew, but not pull out their mats and do their own thing.

Jesus threw the moneychangers out of the temple. I wonder how he would have handled muslims who came to pray there - I know the laws forbid this but I just wonder what he would have thought about it all - interesting idea.
[/quote]
I would agree with that. Jesus threw the money changers out because they were cheating people. In other words they were sinning and of course they were disrupting the function of the temple and being disrespectful to it.
On one occasion at Mass there was a sacred stick and an aboriginal flag near the altar. Whenever I've been near an aboriginal spiritual site there has been signs requesting that we do not enter and only look. I hate to think what would happen if I placed an icon in their sacred site. Political correctness is usually quite unbalanced. But I personally would not object to anyone using our Church as long as they are respectful and do not disrupt our procedures. So yes I would make Muslims more than welcome to pray but to do it inconspicuously. And the aboriginal people are welcome to have their stick and flag in the blessed presence of Jesus.

[Formosus]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' date='02 April 2010 - 10:02 AM' timestamp='1270213354' post='2085488']
[url="http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/04/02/world/AP-EU-Spain-Religious-Scuffle.html?_r=1"]Muslims Try to Pray in Spanish Cathedral[/url]

How about this? They can pray in the cathedral when Christians are permitted to pray in the Hagia Sophia.
[/quote]

Exactly! If they want their mosque back, I am more then willing to accept it so long as the Hagia Sophia is returned to Byzantine worship. Or another good trade would be to get the church which contains the head of John the Baptist. Perhaps we can go for a two for one deal? OR they could just give us back all our churches they stole in the Levant

[Semper Catholic]

Sure is Islamophobia in here.

These were a bunch of Muslims from Austria. Probably more then a few whites in there. Believe it or not not all Muslims like to blow things up for Allah.

You should be ashamed.

I doubt Jesus would care if a man, woman, or child wanted to peacefully pray anywhere let alone a Church.

[Formosus]

I don't have any fear of Islam or Muslims for that matter. I just find their theft of our Holy places to be appalling. If they want their mosque in Spain back, I only think its fair to ask for our churches to be returned to us.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' date='07 April 2010 - 09:56 PM' timestamp='1270702582' post='2089052']
Sure is Islamophobia in here.

These were a bunch of Muslims from Austria. Probably more then a few whites in there. Believe it or not not all Muslims like to blow things up for Allah.

You should be ashamed.

I doubt Jesus would care if a man, woman, or child wanted to peacefully pray anywhere let alone a Church.
[/quote]

peacefully pray sounds good, but to the Saints, angels and the Trinity are not the only sources to whom people pray.

Surely Jesus would care if someone were to pray to a fallen angel such as Satan.

[Maximilianus]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' date='08 April 2010 - 01:56 AM' timestamp='1270702582' post='2089052']
Sure is Islamophobia in here.
[/quote]

Isn't that Def Leppard's third album?

Edited April 8, 2010 by Maximilianus

[Didacus]

Allright, this is contrary to most comments on this board but here's my thoughts.

If muslims worship, like we do, the one God of Abraham, I would think that God would be sad if any faithful prayer was interupted that was intended for Him.

On another hand, if the muslims were simply trying to make a political point, then I don't believe the 'prayer' would have been pleasing to God in the least.

That been said, I believe the muslims visiting the site should have been respectful of the customs and laws of the nation they were visiting and kept they prayfulness discreet and respectful rather than making a scene out of the circumstance. It seems to me that someone faithfully praying to God would not place this much importnace on the location of the prayer and would just as well pray in a hotel room than in a church or other.

But that's just me...

[dominicansoul]

I think if we started allowing people to come into our places of worship and worship however they want, then all our churches will become places where "anything goes." Just check out the liturgies in Los Angeles...

As far as this muslim group is concerned, they need to s.uck up their pride, and realize that the sign out front says, Catedral de Nuestra Señora de la Asunción...CATHOLIC cathedral...

Edited April 8, 2010 by dominicansoul

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' date='08 April 2010 - 12:56 AM' timestamp='1270702582' post='2089052']
Sure is Islamophobia in here.

These were a bunch of Muslims from Austria. Probably more then a few whites in there. Believe it or not not all Muslims like to blow things up for Allah.

You should be ashamed.

I doubt Jesus would care if a man, woman, or child wanted to peacefully pray anywhere let alone a Church.
[/quote]
This isn't about Muslims [i]per se[/i]; it's about the bullying and hectoring that we in the West have to endure vis-a-vis being "respectful" and "tolerant" of Muslims and Islamic religious practice while Christians literally take their lives in their hands when they try to worship freely in majority Muslim countries. Why can there be a mosque in Rome but a Catholic can't even so much as openly wear a crucifix in Saudi Arabia?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' date='08 April 2010 - 09:25 AM' timestamp='1270733103' post='2089164']
This isn't about Muslims [i]per se[/i]; it's about the bullying and hectoring that we in the West have to endure vis-a-vis being "respectful" and "tolerant" of Muslims and Islamic religious practice while Christians literally take their lives in their hands when they try to worship freely in majority Muslim countries. Why can there be a mosque in Rome but a Catholic can't even so much as openly wear a crucifix in Saudi Arabia?
[/quote]

EXACTLY.

Oh, and I love it when someone voices a protest against Islam and gets called an "Islamophobic." Sorry, not all of us follow the PC culture.

[Selah]

[quote]It's a great idea except that Christians don't force their religion on others[/quote]

I guess you've never met a hardcore fundie street preacher, have you?