Japan In Wwii

[Nihil Obstat]

I'm sure part of it was a mob mentality. Culpability was certainly shared by a fair amount of people. Obviously people should have stood up and done something about it, but I'd be willing to bet the mob mentality was a factor.
That, plus "hey, look at this awesome powerful thing we've got! I want a chance to play with my new toy!"

[Saint Therese]

There's a lot of intelligence that even today the public isn't aware of. Both Germany and Japan were very close to having the atomic bomb, and may have already had it.
I tend to think that the people in charge militarily at that time made the best decision with the intelligence they had to work with. Also I'm sure they had a better feel for likelihood of success of an invasion,etc and estimation of possible Allied and Axis casualties than we do.
I once heard that the estimated US casualties for an invasion of the Japanes mainland was over a million.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Saint Therese

[Era Might]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='03 April 2010 - 06:30 PM' timestamp='1270333804' post='2086331']I once heard that the estimated US casualties for an invasion of the Japanes mainland was over a million.
[/quote]
That, in my opinion, is one of the fundamental errors on which modern society is built. That is, we are afraid to suffer and die, so we will resort to anything to avoid it. And when I say anything, I mean anything. There's not much more you can do than dropping an atomic bomb (except dropping a lot of them).

"Mutually assured destruction," we call it. We are indeed quite MAD (pun intended).

[Saint Therese]

[quote name='Era Might' date='03 April 2010 - 06:59 PM' timestamp='1270335562' post='2086344']
That, in my opinion, is one of the fundamental errors on which modern society is built. That is, we are afraid to suffer and die, so we will resort to anything to avoid it. And when I say anything, I mean anything. There's not much more you can do than dropping an atomic bomb (except dropping a lot of them).

"Mutually assured destruction," we call it. We are indeed quite MAD (pun intended).
[/quote]

I"m sorry, but that is complete BS. Its one thing you're willing to go off and get martyred by willing Japanese, and its completely another if you're sacrificing the sons, fathers, brothers, and husbands of your countrymen.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='03 April 2010 - 07:05 PM' timestamp='1270335942' post='2086348']
I"m sorry, but that is complete BS. Its one thing you're willing to go off and get martyred by willing Japanese, and its completely another if you're sacrificing the sons, fathers, brothers, and husbands of your countrymen.
[/quote]
So instead we sacrifice the sons, fathers, brothers, and husbands of the Japanese.

The Japanese are as much my brothers as are the Americans. I would no more drop an atomic bomb on them than I would drop an atomic bomb on America.

[Saint Therese]

Yes. The leaders of our country are bound to first think of their own people. Because, while some people would like to believe that everyone just wants to get along, the truth is that the only way the war would have ended without the a bomb is the total annhilation of the Japanese people. Not to mention the countless number of our own that we would have lost.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='03 April 2010 - 07:13 PM' timestamp='1270336413' post='2086353']
Yes. The leaders of our country are bound to first think of their own people. Because, while some people would like to believe that everyone just wants to get along, the truth is that the only way the war would have ended without the a bomb is the total annhilation of the Japanese people. Not to mention the countless number of our own that we would have lost.
[/quote]
Of course not everyone wants to get along. But I would rather be killed than resort to slaughtering the innocent. I would rather an atomic bomb be dropped on my country than resort to dropping an atomic bomb on someone else's country. I would rather die doing what is right than live doing what is evil.

The atomic bomb presumes a society where people are absolutely afraid to die. We will kill anyone (and everyone, if necessary) in order to avoid dying.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Era Might

[Saint Therese]

I think what you're saying is extremely removed from the reality of the meaning of your words.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='03 April 2010 - 07:24 PM' timestamp='1270337070' post='2086358']
I think what you're saying is extremely removed from the reality of the meaning of your words.
[/quote]
The meaning is death. Death comes for us all.

The question is: how will we live? Will we live like beasts who know only the instinct to survive, killing even the innocent if necessary in order to live? Or will we live like human beings, perhaps even like Christians, preferring to live justly rather than merely to live, preferring to be killed rather than to resort to evil.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Era Might' date='03 April 2010 - 07:22 PM' timestamp='1270336949' post='2086356']The atomic bomb presumes a society where people are absolutely afraid to die. We will kill anyone (and everyone, if necessary) in order to avoid dying.
[/quote]
Just to add, as my final post: among the people in society who aren't afraid to die are precisely the soldiers, which is why we have a military in the first place: we send other people to die for us. To some extent this may be necessary. I'm not a complete pacifist. But there has to be limits. There has to be limits beyond which even the military cannot pass, even if that means that our own civilians must die. The atomic bomb is one of those limits (or at least it should be); indeed, I think the atomic bomb is pretty much the most basic limit you can have. As I said before, a society that is willing to drop an atomic bomb has no basis for a civilization, because that society is willing to forsake even the most basic principles of goodness.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Era Might

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='03 April 2010 - 07:01 PM' timestamp='1270332091' post='2086300']
Those people had free will. They are responsible for what they did.
[/quote]


For sure. It was the wrong thing to do. But who is "guilty" and how much ... is not my place to say.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Era Might' date='03 April 2010 - 08:29 PM' timestamp='1270337394' post='2086361']
The meaning is death. Death comes for us all.

The question is: how will we live? Will we live like beasts who know only the instinct to survive, killing even the innocent if necessary in order to live? Or will we live like human beings, perhaps even like Christians, preferring to live justly rather than merely to live, preferring to be killed rather than to resort to evil.
[/quote]
Sound a bit fanatical here. Not using that word lightly.

[Caritas]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='04 April 2010 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1270418590' post='2086706']
Sound a bit fanatical here. Not using that word lightly.
[/quote]

So was Jesus

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Caritas' date='04 April 2010 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1270419958' post='2086713']
So was Jesus
[/quote]
I think I'd still like to turn this into a thread about Robocop.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Era Might' date='03 April 2010 - 06:29 PM' timestamp='1270337394' post='2086361']
The meaning is death. Death comes for us all.

The question is: how will we live? Will we live like beasts who know only the instinct to survive, killing even the innocent if necessary in order to live? Or will we live like human beings, perhaps even like Christians, preferring to live justly rather than merely to live, preferring to be killed rather than to resort to evil.
[/quote]


[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='04 April 2010 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1270418590' post='2086706']
Sound a bit fanatical here. Not using that word lightly.
[/quote]
I'm interested as to exactly what part of this post you have a problem with. Last time I picked up my Bible, I recall reading a lot about the narrow path, laying down one's life, and being perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. Hope I wasn't imagining that stuff.
I'm pretty sure that being a "fanatic" is the general idea.