Seceding States And Counties

[God Conquers]

[quote name='Winchester' date='26 March 2010 - 12:07 PM' timestamp='1269619645' post='2080589']
Rights don't come from the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. When discussing rights, one need mention legality only to point out whether rights are recognized or violated.
[/quote]

Correct! Rights come from God and are given to the Queen, then invested in us by her allowance. She cedes her powers to her people and allows them to form a government, which enforces and protects those rights of the citizens.

Edited March 26, 2010 by God Conquers

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='26 March 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1269632416' post='2080779']
Correct! Rights come from God and are given to the Queen, then invested in us by her allowance. She cedes her powers to her people and allows them to form a government, which enforces and protects those rights of the citizens.
[/quote]

FTL (For the lose.)

[SaintOfVirtue]

Are we supposed to vote based on our opinion or based on fact? The states do not have the right to secede according to the constitution (fact) but many people would say they wish the states had the right too (opinion).

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='SaintOfVirtue' date='26 March 2010 - 02:53 PM' timestamp='1269633230' post='2080795']
Are we supposed to vote based on our opinion or based on fact? The states do not have the right to secede according to the constitution (fact) but many people would say they wish the states had the right too (opinion).
[/quote]
I guess the larger question is whether you believe your constitution to be morally binding, or just legally binding.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Nihil Obstat

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='26 March 2010 - 09:18 AM' timestamp='1269620337' post='2080596']
Speaking of seceding states, Ann Coulter wants to trade your Democratic states in the northeast for western Canada. You guys down with that? I am.
[/quote]

does she include BC in the western canada thing?

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Winchester' date='26 March 2010 - 12:25 PM' timestamp='1269620759' post='2080601']
Ann Coulter should trade a few bucks for a sandwich.
[/quote]
and a personality

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='26 March 2010 - 03:16 PM' timestamp='1269634590' post='2080823']
does she include BC in the western canada thing?
[/quote]
In theory, but I'm not sure she really knew what she was saying.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='26 March 2010 - 01:21 PM' timestamp='1269634907' post='2080828']
In theory, but I'm not sure she really knew what she was saying.
[/quote]

i think BC would be a bit like kryptonite to Ann Coulter.


[img]http://rmncdn.com/im/do-not-want.jpg[/img]

[Socrates]

Sooner or later, every political debate ends up being about Ann Coulter.

[Socrates]

Secession!

Now more than ever!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Yes to all.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='SaintOfVirtue' date='26 March 2010 - 03:53 PM' timestamp='1269633230' post='2080795']
Are we supposed to vote based on our opinion or based on fact? The states do not have the right to secede according to the constitution (fact) but many people would say they wish the states had the right too (opinion).
[/quote]

[url="http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/voluntary.htm"]Yes[/url], they do have the right according to the Constitution to secede. The Republican governments at the State level were intended to be independent of the Federal government. The Federal government was intended to be more of a confederacy than anything else.

[poetryofimage]

Of course the States have the right to secede. They did so from the Articles of Confederation, and they gave up no right in signing the Constitution. In fact, the 10th amendment specifically gives ALL RIGHTS not restricted by the Constitution to the States. All rights would include the right to secede.

[quote name='SaintOfVirtue' date='26 March 2010 - 02:53 PM' timestamp='1269633230' post='2080795']
Are we supposed to vote based on our opinion or based on fact? The states do not have the right to secede according to the constitution (fact) but many people would say they wish the states had the right too (opinion).
[/quote]

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='Socrates' date='26 March 2010 - 07:52 PM' timestamp='1269643968' post='2080939']
Secession!

Now more than ever!
[/quote]

I can imagine a day when the South would secede from the North to avoid a slavery in which a government, which does not hold the opinions of the people and thus does not have its consent, is forced on the people.

**Note** This does not imply that the War of Northern Aggression (commonly called the Civil War) was about slavery.

[dairygirl4u2c]

there was a supreme court case, regarding Texas, after the civil war. separate but related issue.
here's important part of the opinion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White
"The Union of the States never was a purely artificial and arbitrary relation. It began among the Colonies, and grew out of common origin, mutual sympathies, kindred principles, similar interests, and geographical relations. It was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form and character and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these, the Union was solemnly declared to "be perpetual." And when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained "to form a more perfect Union." It is difficult to convey the idea of indissoluble unity more clearly than by these words. What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?"

that seems pretty compelling. id be open to more proof though, per voluntariness etc. course, if violatisn are occuring, the state should be able to break off, if they are larage enough violations. but, i dont see any violations as being large enough to justify succession. id hesitate to not allow them to leave if they want to, and not put up much fight if they did.... but they wouldnt be justified unless majorviolatios are occuring.
as was essentially also discussed
"When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States."