Seat Belts, Health Care

[Winchester]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='25 March 2010 - 10:25 PM' timestamp='1269570308' post='2080242']
[IMG]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/NoonienSoong_2006/banana_rawk.gif[/IMG]
[/quote]
This is the greatest thing I have ever seen.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='25 March 2010 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1269567534' post='2080212']
There is evidence that things such as drunk driving, talking on the cell phone, listening to loud music, and aggressive driving contribute significantly to traffic fatalities. Simply failing to wear one's seat belt does not create a situation that may result in an accident. Your statement is based upon a fallacy.

I believe that the problem isn't people who fail to wear their seat belt, the problem is people who tailgate, speed, cut people off, use the cell phone and/or text, put on makeup, drive drunk, goof off, use driving as an occasion to bully others, and otherwise drive like toolbags.
[/quote]

i wasnt making a statement, merely saying that the people who do this and are also foolish enough to not be wearing a seatbelt, will be removing themselves permanently from the road ways.

slightly tongue in cheek here.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='25 March 2010 - 11:19 PM' timestamp='1269573585' post='2080266']
i wasnt making a statement, merely saying that the people who do this and are also foolish enough to not be wearing a seatbelt, will be removing themselves permanently from the road ways.

slightly tongue in cheek here.
[/quote]
sorry, prolly read you with too Vulcan a mindset.

[IMG]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/NoonienSoong_2006/celebrity-pictures-leonard-nimoy-ch.jpg[/IMG]

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='25 March 2010 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1269573658' post='2080268']
sorry, prolly read you with too Vulcan a mindset.

[img]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/NoonienSoong_2006/celebrity-pictures-leonard-nimoy-ch.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

sorry i havent been using many emoticons lately so im probably coming off waay to serious in most threads

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Winchester' date='25 March 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1269569833' post='2080238']
And driving is still not a right.
[/quote]
I, a private citizen, purchase a vehicle from a private company, and you are saying that I am granted, only by the grace of Government, the privilege to use it, even on my own property?

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='25 March 2010 - 09:57 PM' timestamp='1269568660' post='2080224']
The applicability and logic (in the Vulcan sense) of post eludes me. I don't recall anyone claiming that seat belts do not save lives. Of course it is wise to wear a seat belt. Of course there are a great many scenarios in which wearing a seat belt could save your life. What is in question (and has yet to be substantiated although I welcome this), is whether or not failing to wear a seat belt does in fact create a notable hazard for [i]others[/i], and secondly, whether or not punitive seat belt legislation is really the most desirable way to encourage people to use wisdom on the road.
[/quote]
My case was the risk was based on a danger to others AND costs (injuries, etc.). You're putting all your eggs in the "danger to others" basket.

The highway is a stage we, the actors, all share in a play called driving. One person's lapse in responsible driving affects everyone else on the road. Yes, there are other distractions. And yes, they have been outlawed in certain areas.

Bottom line: Seat belts make the roads safer for all, especially for the wearer, and that means a lower risk to participate in the play.

But, you've already said this, so what's the point?
[quote]If there is in fact credible evidence suggesting that failing to wear a seat belt puts other drivers in danger then there is the common good to consider, but even [b]this would not convince me in itself[/b].[/quote]

[Ed Normile]

Its real late so I did not read this thread, I will look at it tommorrow so excuse me if I am writing something already posted here. [b]I am against seatbelts[/b], for this reason, I was riding in my cousin mikes truck in 1985, he just restored it and it had no seatbelts, everything was new except the tires, we were going about 68 miles an hour when a rear tire blew while he was negotiating a slight curve on the highway 52 between New Port Richey Fl. and I75. the truck slid off the road and struck a culvert in reverse and flipped over and rolled 9 times according to the state police traveling 1300 feet while doing so. When we stopped we were setting on our wheels and the roof was squashed flat with the hood of the ford f150. I came to first and we were covered in gasoline, I could not open the dorr and I prayed God help me get out of here, only to hear a guy ask "are you all right" i said i am and started screaming for mike who I was lying on between the floor and the seat, he said let me get the battery cable off as we could hear sparks, I tried to kick the door open and it would not budge, this guy just pulled it open and helped us both out the door. Mike was acting dizzy so I turned to ask the guy if he could go down the road and call an ambulance as there was no cell phones at the time, but he was gone , like in the space of a few seconds, there was not even a car on the road, I still think he was an actual angel. I suffered four broken ribs, one which punctured my kidney and some severe bruises, and mike was bruised even less. About an hour and a half later the police and ambulance showed up, there was another wreck two miles away at the I-75 intersection, a boxer I knew from Texas who had come to florida and fought a semi-pro fight, he trained for two weeks at our gym, he was seatbelted in and his car was struck and rolled and he was crushed. the State police officer said i could give you a ticket for no seatblets, but you boys would be dead if you were not thrown onto the floor.[b] I am against the healthcare bill for the fact that its unconstitutional to force a U.S. citizen to purchase any product.

ed[/b]

[Winchester]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='25 March 2010 - 11:28 PM' timestamp='1269574113' post='2080272']
I, a private citizen, purchase a vehicle from a private company, and you are saying that I am granted, only by the grace of Government, the privilege to use it, even on my own property?
[/quote]
You don't have to use a seatbelt on your own property.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Winchester' date='26 March 2010 - 09:50 AM' timestamp='1269611419' post='2080532']
You don't have to use a seatbelt on your own property.
[/quote]
I WIN YOU LOSE [img]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/NoonienSoong_2006/banana_rawk.gif[/img]

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='26 March 2010 - 03:43 AM' timestamp='1269589425' post='2080428']
the State police officer said i could give you a ticket for no seatblets, but you boys would be dead if you were not thrown onto the floor. I am against the healthcare bill for the fact that its unconstitutional to force a U.S. citizen to purchase any product.
[/quote]
And yet, this greeted me in the headlines this morning...

[quote][b]Teens hurled from car during accident[/b]

09:31 AM CDT on Friday, March 26, 2010

[b]Two teens were ejected from the back seat of their car[/b] when it was struck by a pickup Wednesday night.

Traffic Sgt. Jim Brett said four people were in the Ford Taurus as it headed eastbound on Egan Street at 7:50 p.m. [b]The driver and his female passenger were wearing seatbelts, he said, but the 14-year-old and 15-year-old males in the back seat were not.[/b]

They turned across Carroll Boulevard in a rainstorm, and into the path of a pickup driving northbound on Carroll. The truck struck the side of the car, and the back-seat passengers were thrown from the car. The driver of the car later said he believed there was enough time for him to safely cross, Brett said.

The drivers and the front-seat passenger [b]were not seriously injured[/b].

[url="http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/drc/localnews/stories/DRC_Teen-Accident_0326.1e634c895.html"]Source[/url] [/quote]

Not a scientific study. Just two dead teens who were not wearing their seat belts and became projectiles.

Edited March 26, 2010 by kamiller42

[Winchester]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='26 March 2010 - 10:29 AM' timestamp='1269613768' post='2080543']
I WIN YOU LOSE [img]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/NoonienSoong_2006/banana_rawk.gif[/img]
[/quote]
Delusion is the father of SHUT UP!

[Ed Normile]

[url="http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/21/milwaukee.rescue/index.html"]Trapped by SeatBelt[/url]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='26 March 2010 - 09:51 AM' timestamp='1269615108' post='2080554']
And yet, this greeted me in the headlines this morning...



Not a scientific study. Just two dead teens who were not wearing their seat belts and became projectiles.
[/quote]


May God have mercy on their souls and comfort those they left behind, what a tragedy. That is a shame to hear of things like that, as well as when you hear of things like the above incident, I would hate to be trapped in a car and burned like that four year old boy, yet I agree that in certain situations seatbelts do save lives. What irks me is the government forcing you to wear them against your will. Motorcyclists defeated the forced wearing of helmets and those who feel they would help them wear them and those who do not feel that way refuse to wear them, the way it should be in a free society.

ed

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='26 March 2010 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1269620946' post='2080603']
[url="http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/21/milwaukee.rescue/index.html"]Trapped by SeatBelt[/url]

May God have mercy on their souls and comfort those they left behind, what a tragedy. That is a shame to hear of things like that, as well as when you hear of things like the above incident, I would hate to be trapped in a car and burned like that four year old boy, yet I agree that in certain situations seatbelts do save lives. What irks me is the government forcing you to wear them against your will. Motorcyclists defeated the forced wearing of helmets and those who feel they would help them wear them and those who do not feel that way refuse to wear them, the way it should be in a free society.
[/quote]
You know what is missing from that story? The fact the rescuers might have been cutting out a dead body rather than a live boy if he wasn't wearing his seat belt.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='26 March 2010 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1269620946' post='2080603']
[url="http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/21/milwaukee.rescue/index.html"]Trapped by SeatBelt[/url]

[/quote]
And what do you think would have happened if the kid hadn't been restrained?

Freakish occurences like this aren't proof of the deadliness of seatbelts. For every story like this, there are many more that go the other way. A minor wreck can be serious or fatal. Go smack your face into your windshield a few times as hard as you can muster.

The simple answer is this: When an insurance company finds out the driver wasn't wearing his seatbelt, they should be able to not cover a single expense. The same should go for health insurance.

But again, the government is within its rights to regulate the vehicles and behavior of drivers on its roads. Your same arguments apply to drunken driving, speeding, and all other infantile behaviors whilst driving.

[Nihil Obstat]

Well without a seatbelt, I'm pretty sure my mother would have died about six years ago when she was rear-ended at a stop light. So........ I dunno. That's that, I guess. I think it's dumb not to wear one. Legality is another question, I suppose.