Bruce S

[Justified Saint]

Well whatever floats your boat - I guess that is all that matters.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote]the thing is, the Catholic Church has its own version of "context"...[/quote]

Better put The Catholic Church has [b]THE CONTEXT![/b]

God Bless
Jason

[the lumberjack]

[quote name='Justified Saint' date='Apr 26 2004, 10:16 PM'] Well whatever floats your boat - I guess that is all that matters. [/quote]
JS, I concede that you will never see it as the Christian faith does...and I will never see it the way the Roman Catholic Church does.

never the less, I pray.

and Jason...

...

nevermind.

[Justified Saint]

CORRECTION: I will never see it as the Protestant or non-Catholic sees it. And there is a reason for that - I like to call it Truth (with a big "T").

Edited April 27, 2004 by Justified Saint

[Dave]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 27 2004, 01:23 AM'] JS, I concede that you will never see it as the Christian faith does...and I will never see it the way the Roman Catholic Church does. [/quote]
The Catholic faith [b]is[/b] the Christian faith -- in its entirety! And you say you'll never see the Catholic Church as it sees itself. But we've given you lots of proof that the Church is as it is. So why are you determined to believe what you want to believe about it no matter what?

[littleflower+JMJ]

..............

[the lumberjack]

[quote name='Dave' date='Apr 26 2004, 10:42 PM'] The Catholic faith [b]is[/b] the Christian faith -- in its entirety! And you say you'll never see the Catholic Church as it sees itself. But we've given you lots of proof that the Church is as it is. So why are you determined to believe what you want to believe about it no matter what? [/quote]
you've given me private superstition, mysticism, and "visions" of man outside the Bible...
you've given me documents written by fallible men WELL after the time of Christ
you've given me many things.... love, yes.

but proof...rock solid as the Bible...you have yet to give me.

[cmotherofpirl]

The Bible is only as rock solid as the Church that gave it to you.

[the lumberjack]

the Church that gave it to me existed about 1900 years ago... the Church that formed it existed almost 1700 years ago...

after that... sorry...can't say.

too much man, not enough God.

God bless.

[Livin_the_MASS]

God became man!

We got our Teaching from the God man, Jesus Christ True God and True Man!

You confuse me!

God Bless
Jason

[amarkich]

Lumberjack, I have a question concerning the Church in general. It seems that you believe in the Church to some extent, namely that there was Church which then became corrupted by men. Is this your stance? Please correct me if I am wrong. This is a very common stance among Protestants, and I would like to question you concerning it, but I will wait for your reply as to whether or not you adhere to this theory. God bless.

[the lumberjack]

this is not a theory...but if you want to call it that, sure.

I do perscribe to it.

I don't know a lot about early Christian history...I'm not even going to say I do. but from the looks of it, I'm gonna have to, if I want to dig into your minds and hearts.

somewhere after the first century, some say about the time Constantinople made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, some say before that, like as early as the 2nd century, when the good pope Victor I was the pope... and it goes a little something like:

[quote]Pope Victor I (189-199)

We know relatively little about the popes before Christianity came into prominence with emperor Constantine in the fourth century. The popes had relatively little temporal power and hence did not make and significant historical impact. However, even then some of the pope were already exhibiting an intolerant strain that was to mar Christendom throughout history.

One such pope was Pope Victor I, who held the office from the year 189 to 199. In the church of that day there was a dispute as to the exact date Easter, the memorial of Jesus' resurrection, should be celebrated. Then, the churches in Asia Minor celebrated Easter on the 14th of Nisan, the Jewish Passover, regardless of what day it falls on. They were called, because of this tradition, Quartodecimans. The rest of Christendom celebrated Easter on the first Sunday after the 14th of Nisan. In the past the Christians had simply agreed to differ on the exact date of this festival. Victor, unable to accept any lack in uniformity excommunicated all Quartodecimans. Victor was also the first pope to indulge in imperial wheeling and dealing. This pope made use of the emperor's mistress, Marcia, who was Christian, in his attempts to free some condemned Christians.

refs

1. John Grant, A Book of Numbers, Corgi, London 1982: p90
Kelly, Dictionary of Popes: p12
Livingstone, Dictionary of the Church: p425[/quote]

thanks and God bless.

[Justified Saint]

At least there is the admission that the papacy was firmly rooted in the Scriptures and the early Church (an admission that more and more Protestants have no choice but to concede to in light of the facts).

Those evil popes - always trying to do the right thing.