I Feel Defeated

[Marie-Therese]

Luke 18:16 (Douay)

[i]But Jesus, calling them together, said: Suffer children to come to me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. [/i]

Parents have a duty to instruct and catechize their children, certainly. The body of Christ also has a duty to welcome the children, making a way for them to know their Savior and Lord. To shrug your shoulders and say "it's the parents' responsibility" is to relegate the duties of the Body of Christ to no consequence. If we cannot look to our parishes to assist parents in teaching God's beloved little ones, then they fail us. To think of a parish as simply a Pez-style Eucharist dispenser is to fail to acknowledge the fullness of being in Christ's body.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Marie-Therese

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='14 March 2010 - 01:18 PM' timestamp='1268587134' post='2072929']
Luke 18:16 (Douay)

[i]But Jesus, calling them together, said: Suffer children to come to me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. [/i]

Parents have a duty to instruct and catechize their children, certainly. The body of Christ also has a duty to welcome the children, making a way for them to know their Savior and Lord. To shrug your shoulders and say "it's the parents' responsibility" is to relegate the duties of the Body of Christ to no consequence. If we cannot look to our parishes to assist parents in teaching God's beloved little ones, then they fail us. To think of a parish as simply a Pez-style Eucharist dispenser is to fail to acknowledge the fullness of being in Christ's body.
[/quote]
I still don't think that's what apparently meant...

but I could be wrong...

like i said in my previous post, parents need to teach children how they are loved and welcomed by God in the Holy Eucharist...everything else will fall into place after that...and you are correct in saying that a parish's programs are meant [i]only to assist parents[/i] in the teaching of children. Parents are the primary teachers...and I just find it sad that a little girl thinks she is not welcome by the Church just 'cos she can't participate in the children's ministries...

[Apotheoun]

I am all for programs for children (e.g., outdoor activities, social events, educational programs, etc.), but I am not in favor of separate liturgical services for kids. Families should worship together.

[dominicansoul]

...believe me I know how important it is to have parent's teach their children, because I've been involved in parish catechesis for many years...and guess what? It's been an uphill battle, because I only get these students for an hour and a half a week, they are all highschool students who have gone through the parish catechesis program from kindergarten to now...and they've never learned about their Faith. Why? Because they never have had a relationship with Jesus in the Eucharist. They never had their parents or guardians teach them one iota of what it means to be a Catholic. What we are lacking in the Catholic Church is not so much ministries for the children and the youth...what we are lacking is that important formation from parents to their children...the parish can only do so much...without the support of parent's, children don't learn anything...

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='14 March 2010 - 01:45 PM' timestamp='1268588709' post='2072942']
I am all for programs for children (e.g., outdoor activities, social events, educational programs, etc.), but I am not in favor of separate liturgical services for kids. Families should worship together.
[/quote]
...I agree! I find it a distraction when the children are pulled away from their families right before the Liturgy of the Word begins in "children's Masses." I'm sure if that were going on when I was a kid, my mom would not let me go.

[add]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='14 March 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1268588246' post='2072936']
I still don't think that's what apparently meant...

but I could be wrong...

like i said in my previous post, parents need to teach children how they are loved and welcomed by God in the Holy Eucharist...everything else will fall into place after that...and you are correct in saying that a parish's programs are meant [i]only to assist parents[/i] in the teaching of children. Parents are the primary teachers...and I just find it sad that a little girl thinks she is not welcome by the Church just 'cos she can't participate in the children's ministries...
[/quote]

i said the parents rule, faithful catholic parents rule. my children were baptized, received first communion at age 7 and confirmation at age 14. it was a good upbringing and in retrospect i would not change a thing.
my parish does fine, the way it is... i do not mean to imply that children's ministries are in any way wrong, just that mother (and father) knows best.
thank you

[Archaeology cat]

I have to say that I've never heard of having to sign a child up for the children's liturgy.

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='14 March 2010 - 04:48 PM' timestamp='1268585296' post='2072923']
...but first and foremost, we must teach the Children about the Presence of Christ in the Church, and so they will never feel "unwelcome." First teach the children about Jesus in the Tabernacle, and you will find that everything else falls into place...
[/quote]
I pray I am able to instil this in my children, and that they do indeed foster a love of Jesus in the Tabernacle.

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='14 March 2010 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1268588709' post='2072942']
I am all for programs for children (e.g., outdoor activities, social events, educational programs, etc.), but I am not in favor of separate liturgical services for kids. Families should worship together.
[/quote]
Completely agree

[add]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' date='14 March 2010 - 02:53 PM' timestamp='1268589215' post='2072948']
I have to say that I've never heard of having to sign a child up for the children's liturgy.


I pray I am able to instil this in my children, and that they do indeed foster a love of Jesus in the Tabernacle.


Completely agree
[/quote]

well played, archaeology
i concur with your thoughts

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='14 March 2010 - 10:45 AM' timestamp='1268588709' post='2072942']
I am all for programs for children (e.g., outdoor activities, social events, educational programs, etc.), but I am not in favor of separate liturgical services for kids. Families should worship together.
[/quote]
+JMJ+
agreed.

[angieAugustina]

I am employed as Religious Ed. secretary at a large-ish, very active, well-off parish.
I am also involved in elementary, Jr. Hi and High School ministries as well as
Confirmation formation at this parish.
First let me state that I love working for the Church it is truly a blessing.
But
my job has changed from serving the Children, Families, Catechists and other
volunteers to serving the [u]administration[/u] of the Diocese and parish, vis a vis hounding
families for insurance verification, medical info, emergency contacts, signatures and liability forms,
hounding Catechist/classroom volunteers (faith-filled, dedicated, unpaid) to attend
lengthy, dry, and sadly out-dated safe environment courses, tracking certification requirements
frankly undoable for all but the retired (and who can retire in this economy) as well as scramble
to officially verify that chaperones and drivers to off-site events have the correct credentials.

ALL OF THIS TO PROTECT THE TEMPORAL ASSETS OF OUR DIOCESE.
Anyone who cannot jump through these hoops puts the parish, and by extension the diocese, at risk.

So my job mainly entails paperwork and a database, not serving souls for Jesus.
[b]Protestant churches, even the affiliated ones, have MUCH fewer assets to lose, so can practice the
open door policy.[/b]
Obviously I have mixed feelings.
Thank you for letting me share. I do lay it all at the foot of His Cross, and do my best to let
the Holy Spirit guide my words and attitude as I serve Holy Mother Church.

[Cherie]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='14 March 2010 - 01:45 PM' timestamp='1268588709' post='2072942']
I am all for programs for children (e.g., outdoor activities, social events, educational programs, etc.), but I am not in favor of separate liturgical services for kids. Families should worship together.
[/quote]

I absolutely 100% agree with this. There are numerous reasons (especially theologically) why it's better for the children to stay with their parents.

Perhaps the solution to this kind of problem is your own personal approach. If your child can't be part of the church's "children's program," make one yourself. Go to each place in the church and explain to your child what each place means. Go to the Tabernacle, and tell your child "That's where Jesus is!" and teach them the meaning of the Eucharist. Children are naturally open and their innate ability to sit and WONDER about things is often forgotten by adults. A child will feel like they "belong" more if they know what's going on. Most children nowadays are never taught these things ... make it your personal goal to teach them. A child can be taught what goes on during the Mass very discreetly and respectfully in a whisper even DURING Mass, so that other families are not disturbed by it.

It's not the same as being part of the parish's children's program, but you probably wouldn't want your kids there, anyway. You could probably teach them the Faith a lot better anyway.

If you need good resources, check these out: http://www.neumannpress.com/childrens.html If you can't afford to purchase these books, see if they have it at your local library or a used copy on Amazon.com.

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[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='14 March 2010 - 01:18 PM' timestamp='1268587134' post='2072929']
To think of a parish as simply a Pez-style Eucharist dispenser is to fail to acknowledge the fullness of being in Christ's body.
[/quote]

wow, i missed this line!

i do hope that's not what you took to understand my posts about the way my devout Catholic mom concentrated and focused primarily on the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Believe me, that's all a parent really need to do, is to help their sons and daughters nourish their relationship with Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist because the Eucharist is the Source and Summit of the Christian Life, and as I've stressed throughout this whole thread, if a parent nourishes and teaches this, than your children will always feel welcome in a Catholic Church community...by Jesus Christ Himself

...my mom believed if we seek God first, than all things would fall into place in our understanding of the Faith, and she was correct.

I don't think anyone here has even mentioned anything as harsh as comparing a parish to a "pez-style" dispenser of the Most Holy Eucharist...although I know of some parents who have never felt it was their duty to teach their children the Faith, who believe the parish is somehow responsible for their kids receiving the Sacraments when they never come to Church and just sorta use the parish as a "dispenser of Sacraments" because to them, "it's a rite of passage," and the thing to do...

Edited March 14, 2010 by dominicansoul

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='CherieMadame' date='14 March 2010 - 02:23 PM' timestamp='1268591036' post='2072971']
I absolutely 100% agree with this. There are numerous reasons (especially theologically) why it's better for the children to stay with their parents.

Perhaps the solution to this kind of problem is your own personal approach. If your child can't be part of the church's "children's program," make one yourself. Go to each place in the church and explain to your child what each place means. Go to the Tabernacle, and tell your child "That's where Jesus is!" and teach them the meaning of the Eucharist. Children are naturally open and their innate ability to sit and WONDER about things is often forgotten by adults. A child will feel like they "belong" more if they know what's going on. Most children nowadays are never taught these things ... make it your personal goal to teach them. A child can be taught what goes on during the Mass very discreetly and respectfully in a whisper even DURING Mass, so that other families are not disturbed by it.

It's not the same as being part of the parish's children's program, but you probably wouldn't want your kids there, anyway. You could probably teach them the Faith a lot better anyway.

If you need good resources, check these out: http://www.neumannpress.com/childrens.html If you can't afford to purchase these books, see if they have it at your local library or a used copy on Amazon.com.

[b][font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"][size="2"][color="#000000"][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[/quote]

+1
Action failed: You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

Edited March 14, 2010 by dominicansoul

[CatherineM]

I also hate children's liturgies. I always sat with my parents, and learned the liturgy right along with everyone else.

[KeenanParkerII]

But, is what he's getting at really about celebrating the liturgy together..? I thought it was about "extracurricular" programs so to speak.