Indwelling Trinity Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 (edited) [quote name='DameAgnes' date='13 March 2010 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1268499868' post='2072356'] I am surprised to read that you are not an extern, sister, being as your post so frequently. I have no problem with that, btw, but it strikes me that we've had some pm'ers in the past getting antsy about cloistered sisters "breaking enclosure" by going on to the internet or posting in forums. Apparently that concern has been assuaged, now. This, I think, is a good thing, as it is very helpful to get the perspective of a cloistered nun. [/quote] Laughing. I suppose some would think of me as an extern sister with my posting. I looked at my profile and I post 1.32 posts daily as an average.. at least according to phatmass statistics. I think it would be polite of me to clarify this so others should not be scandalized by my posting. First to me and most important is that I have the permission of my Prioress to do so. I belong to a few groups, one of which i am a moderator and board member. It is a group of lay people and priests and religious who wish to form a life of contemplative spirituality in the world following the Carthusian tradition. I am kind of a contemplative rep LOL...really not a big deal. Occasionally i write things and do the usual moderator things. That I also belong to Phatmass is obvious... but if you will see almost 100% of my posting is on Vocation Station. I do not surf the web just to occupy myself or entertain myself. I am on line for a purpose, and that is to share spiritually with others what little God gives me in prayer. I am kind of an enigma to myself..laughing. For instead of being distracted from my contemplative hermit vocation by this,; iI find that it only enhances my spiritual prayer life. I am surely able to remain for long periods of time in solitude and silence but when i do, a funny thing happens to me; almost like a chain reaction. The deeper I pray, the more the Lord puts the fire in my heart to share that love and insight that I have received with others in love. After having done so, that in turn pulls me back into silence solitude and prayer even more forcefully and I bring all those whom I know into that prayer with me and so fires my love again to give myself for others that they to may enjoy the beauty and love that I have known. Even though my typing is lousy..LOL I feel in a very tiny way and i say tiny( for I am no writer) Some of the conflict that i think Merton did. He was a true monk and hermit in an order known for speaking only a few words: yet he generated prolific number of writings which stemmed from his own life in Christ. It was a fire in him that had to be let out and given to others. If he did not, He could never be the monk he was called to be. So the same with me. It is the fire of love in my heart I want to share with others so they too may know that very same fire. If I did not share it, i would not be able to be the hermit I am today, for the two compliment each other in my particular vocation. Whether it be in a simple joke to uplift someone or something more serious and deeper in nature, it all satisfies in my heart the desire to give completely of myself to God and others. Most of the other sisters in my community almost abhor contact with the outside world. I embrace it as part of the whole of who I am. To do less would be to be unfaithful to my calling. My Prioress seeing my ability to touch others through writing thus allows me to do so as an expression of my love. Who am I? nobody... Just a little one who wishes to give and love others tenderly in whatever way i can. If Mother were to tell me to stop this instant, the plug would be pulled in the blink of an eye. However, this impetus in me is consonant with the roots of my Order where the hermits would come down from Carmel from time to time to share the fruits of their spiritual life with others and then peacefully return to their solitude. Many of the desert fathers did this and even today you will find books written by hermits for others, like "The Hermitage Within" which is a spiritual classic today. The book is written anonymously by a hermit but it is the outgrowth of this hermits love of God and others which forced him to share what he had been given in silence, solitude and prayer. Look at all the richness of the writings of the Carmelite saints. Laughing... surely i don't count among them but the fire in their hearts caused them to write and how much poorer would we be today with out their writings. The Internet is the snail mail of yesterday... It becomes dangerous only when one misuses it ie: to escape their solitude, to look at sites not befitting a religious, or to use others as a personal steam valve to offset their living with their sisters, to avoid their solitude, to use it as a means of gossip or to neglect ones prayerlife. I have many times examined my conscience and none are true for me and so I have no apologies. Besides I go by the way of obedience which is the safest way. I only want to share with others the beauty i see and to let others know how precious they are to God and finally in as poor a way as i can, be a stepping stone others may use on their journey to God. I deeply wish all to know God's merciful love and to try in my own poor ways to draw others to that Mercy wherever or however he may be calling them. No secret agenda's. There is a possibility that i will be called back to living fully with the Hermits and Mother has already told me she wishes for me to continue writing as part of my work. Not only on the internet but also by snail mail to the hundreds of people who write to the monastery looking for solace or guidance in the spiritual life according to Carmelite spirituality. It would be a happy obedience for me to do between washing toilets and mending clothes..LOL But even those things are a joy. So many are so hungry for God and the spiritual life that even a few words are like a drop of fresh water in the desert of our secular society. Now I ask all of you my friends ... If my posts are not doing any good to anyone spiritually, do not bring better love of God and understanding for the preciousness of each of our individual vocations, do not bring a little lightness at times or are a source of scandal to the majority of you. Please i beg you tell me and I will cease and desist and just continue to hold each one of you silently in my heart lovingly before God in prayer. This is not a defensive response to your post Dame Agnes; but only an explanation of why i am here in the first place which is to share in love what little has been given me. I apologize for talking about myself so much in this post and truthfully feel humiliated in doing so, but since the topic was brought up I felt it was better to face it head on. If loving is breaking enclosure to some, then I plead guilty. But enclosure is meant to be a means of greater love and not disdain for those outside of the enclosure. If it expands your love... then enclosure is right for you. I have lived silent solitary enclosure for many years without problem and can easily do so again if it is Gods will that i speak no more. I love you all! Tenderly in Our Mother of Carmel, Indwelling Trinity Edited March 13, 2010 by Indwelling Trinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='14 March 2010 - 05:57 AM' timestamp='1268510272' post='2072456'] Most of the other sisters in my community almost abhor contact with the outside world. I embrace it as part of the whole of who I am. To do less would be to be unfaithful to my calling. My Prioress seeing my ability to touch others through writing thus allows me to do so as an expression of my love. There is a possibility that i will be called back to living fully with the Hermits and Mother has already told me she wishes for me to continue writing as part of my work. [/quote] So you are a member of a community but dont live in community? Sorry I am a bit confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indwelling Trinity Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 [quote name='vee8' date='13 March 2010 - 09:27 PM' timestamp='1268530069' post='2072563'] So you are a member of a community but dont live in community? Sorry I am a bit confused. [/quote] It is OK sis... I am an associate hermit professed with them for 7 years. I have Multiple Sclerosis and am profoundly hard of hearing. At the Monastery the hermitages are quite far away from the main building. Minnesota winters are extremely cold and buried in snow. Mother feared that with my MS I would not be able to manage the deep snow and with my hearing loss would not be able to communicate by walkie talkie that they use. so if I fell etc... wI would not be able to mange to get help. Now with new technology in hearing aids ans seeing that my MS has not progressed substantially the sisters are willing to have me live with the in a new hermitage nearer the main buildings. Truthfully I do not know if this is God's will for i believe he has put in my heart the idea of founding a semi- eremitical Carmel devoted to Divine Mercy,as you can see on my profile. I am in contact with the provincial and have 4 women who wish to join me. My Prioress encouraes me as well as my spiritual director in this undertaking. But recently Mother felt maybe i was to live out divine mercy under the hermits. The proposed community is strongly in my heart but I must be open to wherever God may send me... as I have said so many times the most important thing is to be in God's will through Obedience and humility. and so I keep my mind open and defer to my superior as we continue to discern God's will. I want only to say yes to Jesus in whatever way he wants. For the past 7 years i have been living as a finally professed Carmelite hermit. If Mother tells me to come back it would only be a transfer. And so I pray and wait to know God's will. I must be ready to live this life in a way that does not necessarily end in my own way of understanding it and so must be docile. I hope I have not confused you more! laughing... Tenderly, Indwelling Trinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomist-in-Training Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 Dear Indwelling Trinity, Your posts are wonderful! I would only joke that you are guilty of a small fib ---by claiming you are not much of a writer! This is one of those boards that are kind of paradoxical, most people here are on the outside, aiming at the inside, of a convent or monastery. So naturally we have more hunches and secondhand news than real information--and perhaps more youthful zeal than insight and experience. It is really a blessing to have posters like you, who have tact, experience of religious life and life in general, a deep spirituality, and a sense of humor! May holy obedience permit you to keep writing for a long time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indwelling Trinity Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 [quote name='Thomist-in-Training' date='13 March 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1268532595' post='2072579'] Dear Indwelling Trinity, Your posts are wonderful! I would only joke that you are guilty of a small fib ---by claiming you are not much of a writer! This is one of those boards that are kind of paradoxical, most people here are on the outside, aiming at the inside, of a convent or monastery. So naturally we have more hunches and secondhand news than real information--and perhaps more youthful zeal than insight and experience. It is really a blessing to have posters like you, who have tact, experience of religious life and life in general, a deep spirituality, and a sense of humor! May holy obedience permit you to keep writing for a long time! [/quote] God bless you and thank you my friend... gentle hug:kiss: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='14 March 2010 - 11:45 AM' timestamp='1268531155' post='2072569'] I hope I have not confused you more! laughing... [/quote] Hmmm I see.....soooo whats a Carmelite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indwelling Trinity Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 [quote name='vee8' date='13 March 2010 - 11:21 PM' timestamp='1268536916' post='2072632'] Hmmm I see.....soooo whats a Carmelite? [/quote] Laughing... i am not going to tell you just for being the brat you are! I love you sis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='14 March 2010 - 01:23 PM' timestamp='1268537016' post='2072637'] Laughing... i am not going to tell you just for being the brat you are! I love you sis. [/quote] On the subject of extern sisters though Id be fine if God wants me to do that but it might be better for the public in general if Im cloistered and limited to talking two hours a day. It might lessen my time in purgatory too. Edited March 14, 2010 by vee8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmaD2006 Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 [quote name='HisChild' date='13 March 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1268499820' post='2072355'] Exactly. For instance, The Sisters of Life call themselves contemplative active vs. the other way around. Mother Agnes told me it was because it was through their prayer that they were able to do any active ministry at all. If their own spiritual wells were dry, how could they be of any service to others? They have a tremendous spiritual life, almost as much as I've seen in some monasteries, but they're also very active. If one is considering a contemplative vocation, it would be good to visit with and discern with not only a purely contemplative community (cloistered or not) as well as those who have an active apostolate balanced with prayer. [/quote] And this points out another difference .... extern sisters of a cloistered monastery is different than being a sister of a contemplative/active (either direction) community, or a sister of an active community. And not every contemplative/active community is the same ... the 1st community that I entered postulancy with was more cloistered than I expected. Long story short -- its a question of discernment. Obviously not every community is right for everyone, but you will only know by getting to know the community and, if your discernment indicates it, by entering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totus Tuus Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I was an extern for about a year. It is a beautiful vocation! I think of it as the best of both worlds - you get to be Martha and Mary at once. In my community, externs lived outside of the cloister's enclosure, but had their own enclosure so that cloistered life was observed when outside duties weren't being carried out. It's a beautiful life. I started out feeling more attracted to the cloister before visiting, but after visiting I knew the extern life was definitely for me, and could see myself having stayed an extern forever! It just fit my personality perfectly. It does differ a lot from community to community, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totus Tuus Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Oh and if you ever leave the religious life after having been an extern for a cloistered community, it makes your story much more complicated!! Haha. I don't usually tell people I was in religious life, because inevitably they have a hundred or more questions (which at first were very painful to answer!). But it gets even more confusing when you're dealing with their shock at your past life, their questions about which Order, where, how long, and cloistered v. active..... because THEN you have to explain you weren't either, you were an extern, and most people don't even know what an extern IS! lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='14 March 2010 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1268531155' post='2072569'] It is OK sis... I am an associate hermit professed with them for 7 years. I have Multiple Sclerosis and am profoundly hard of hearing. At the Monastery the hermitages are quite far away from the main building. Minnesota winters are extremely cold and buried in snow. Mother feared that with my MS I would not be able to manage the deep snow and with my hearing loss would not be able to communicate by walkie talkie that they use. so if I fell etc... wI would not be able to mange to get help. Now with new technology in hearing aids ans seeing that my MS has not progressed substantially the sisters are willing to have me live with the in a new hermitage nearer the main buildings. Truthfully I do not know if this is God's will for i believe he has put in my heart the idea of founding a semi- eremitical Carmel devoted to Divine Mercy,as you can see on my profile. I am in contact with the provincial and have 4 women who wish to join me. My Prioress encouraes me as well as my spiritual director in this undertaking. But recently Mother felt maybe i was to live out divine mercy under the hermits. The proposed community is strongly in my heart but I must be open to wherever God may send me... as I have said so many times the most important thing is to be in God's will through Obedience and humility. and so I keep my mind open and defer to my superior as we continue to discern God's will. I want only to say yes to Jesus in whatever way he wants. For the past 7 years i have been living as a finally professed Carmelite hermit. If Mother tells me to come back it would only be a transfer. And so I pray and wait to know God's will. I must be ready to live this life in a way that does not necessarily end in my own way of understanding it and so must be docile. I hope I have not confused you more! laughing... Tenderly, Indwelling Trinity [/quote] Would you be able to explain your situation a little more for those of us who don't understand it? What is an 'associate' professed and how is it different from any other kind of professed? Are you a consecrated hermit to a Bishop or to a superior of a community? An associate conjures up images of secular Carmelites or tertiaries to me, is that what you mean? You have written about your time with the MCs and with the Carmelites, but obviously your situation is different now. And if you are starting your own community, this usually means some kind of exclaustration from the original community, doesn't it? As for writing here, I think it is good that sisters and hermits can use the Internet to stay in touch. St Teresa wrote hundreds of letter (there are books full of them) and St Teresa of the Andes wrote copiously too. Sometimes this is the way God uses a person. so I wouldn't see that as a problem if one has permission, as you do. I have a friend who was a choir nun and later became an extern, and her situation changed a lot too. There seem to be a great variety of different tpes of religious life so I just get curious about them all. Don't feel you have to answer if this seems rude, I don't mean to sound that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
organwerke Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 [quote name='nunsense' date='16 March 2010 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1268738922' post='2073911'] As for writing here, I think it is good that sisters and hermits can use the Internet to stay in touch. St Teresa wrote hundreds of letter (there are books full of them) and St Teresa of the Andes wrote copiously too. Sometimes this is the way God uses a person. so I wouldn't see that as a problem if one has permission, as you do. [/quote] May I share some thoughts? I appreciate very much those who have the gift of touching the souls with their writings. I think to many saints who were asked by their superiors to write about their lives in order to bring others to God... personally I'm not the kind of person who likes very much to write, while I love very much to read!!! I love not only spiritual writings, but also literature (good one) in general, even if spiritual books are my favourite. I think it is really a blessing for me to read so beautiful things here. Of course I have a great respect and admiration towards those religious, in particular cloistered ones, who spend their days in prayer and in silence for the salvation of the souls, but I am very grateful to those who share their inner graces and sights with others. For example I don't like very much to speak about myself, especially in public, or to answer to personal questions...and so I appreciate very much those persons who win their reserve to lighten others with their writings, because I myself wouldn't like very much to do this!! I see at it as a very charitable thing, and it is a true blessing that I can read so many inspirational thoughts! Of course I think many of you have my same feelings...anyway I wanted to say them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laetitia crucis Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 [quote name='organwerke' date='16 March 2010 - 10:23 AM' timestamp='1268745780' post='2073928'] May I share some thoughts? I appreciate very much those who have the gift of touching the souls with their writings. I think to many saints who were asked by their superiors to write about their lives in order to bring others to God... personally I'm not the kind of person who likes very much to write, while I love very much to read!!! I love not only spiritual writings, but also literature (good one) in general, even if spiritual books are my favourite. I think it is really a blessing for me to read so beautiful things here. Of course I have a great respect and admiration towards those religious, in particular cloistered ones, who spend their days in prayer and in silence for the salvation of the souls, but I am very grateful to those who share their inner graces and sights with others. For example I don't like very much to speak about myself, especially in public, or to answer to personal questions...and so I appreciate very much those persons who win their reserve to lighten others with their writings, because I myself wouldn't like very much to do this!! I see at it as a very charitable thing, and it is a true blessing that I can read so many inspirational thoughts! [b]Of course I think many of you have my same feelings...anyway I wanted to say them![/b] [/quote] Thank you for saying this -- I [i]completely[/i] agree!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praxedes Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 An experienced spiritual director should be able to help one discern one's place in religious life. Prayers. Pax, Praxedes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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