Kathgirl Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Do Extern Sisters live outside the Enclosure? If they do, are they allowed to enter the enclosure? For example, when I watch Benediction on EWTN, I see 3 nuns on the public side and the enclosed Sisters are on the monastery side. So, where do the externs live? Are there certain times they join the other sisters? Are they missing out on the beautiful life shared in community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 I think it varies by community/order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indwelling Trinity Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 [quote name='Kathgirl' date='13 March 2010 - 10:14 AM' timestamp='1268489662' post='2072294'] Do Extern Sisters live outside the Enclosure? If they do, are they allowed to enter the enclosure? For example, when I watch Benediction on EWTN, I see 3 nuns on the public side and the enclosed Sisters are on the monastery side. So, where do the externs live? Are there certain times they join the other sisters? Are they missing out on the beautiful life shared in community? [/quote] I agree with ST It depends on the community but below seems to be the general norm for most both before and after the counsel. It used to be that externs had their own living quarters outside of the nuns enclosure but within the monastery. Years ago they had thier recreation with another extern. They had a choice to participate in the office from the public side of the chapel but were not bound to say the whole office. Usually they did not enter the enclosure of the nuns. They took simple perpetual vows rather than solemn vows. Since Vatican II things have changed very much. Many externs now have meals and some of the office in the nuns choir. They recreate with the nuns and sleep now within the nuns enclosure. Many now even have a vote in chapter. I think this has been a wonderful change for them while still allowing them to exercise their calling as externs. It is a very busy and hardworking lifestyle choice and one needs special graces to be able to live it. It is not easy to always smile and be patient when answering the door and phone at least thirty times a day. God bless those who have been given that gift... for myself i could never do it as I just need a lot more silence and solitude. I hope this calriifies somewhat rather than adding confusion to the understanding the vocation. tenderly, Indwelling Trinity:turban: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 How do you know if you have an exern vocation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Hearts Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 VATII asked that Extern Sisters be brought inside the monastery to live, eat, recreate and pray with the nuns. They were to be considered full members of the community, receiving the same formation, with the only difference being their simple vows which allows them to be present to visitors and attend to all areas of the monastery outside the enclosure, as well as representing the Community as needed. they are no longer considered less than the nuns in solemn vows. The Extern vocation is a very distinct vocation and a beautiful one at that. It has been disappointing to see monasteries who still have their Extern Sisters living outside the enclosure, therefore treating them as less than full members of the community. On the other hand, some monasteries brought their Externs inside for good, and they made solemn vows - feeling no need for Extern sisters. This is sad b/c it is a distinct and not interchangeable vocation. While this was wonderful for the Externs Sisters who felt called to be enclosed, it was not true for all. Religious life is fascinating and complex! In the Two Hearts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indwelling Trinity Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 [quote name='Two Hearts' date='13 March 2010 - 11:36 AM' timestamp='1268494591' post='2072321'] VATII asked that Extern Sisters be brought inside the monastery to live, eat, recreate and pray with the nuns. They were to be considered full members of the community, receiving the same formation, with the only difference being their simple vows which allows them to be present to visitors and attend to all areas of the monastery outside the enclosure, as well as representing the Community as needed. they are no longer considered less than the nuns in solemn vows. The Extern vocation is a very distinct vocation and a beautiful one at that. It has been disappointing to see monasteries who still have their Extern Sisters living outside the enclosure, therefore treating them as less than full members of the community. On the other hand, some monasteries brought their Externs inside for good, and they made solemn vows - feeling no need for Extern sisters. This is sad b/c it is a distinct and not interchangeable vocation. While this was wonderful for the Externs Sisters who felt called to be enclosed, it was not true for all. Religious life is fascinating and complex! In the Two Hearts... [/quote] Wonderful reply two hearts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 [quote name='Saint Therese' date='13 March 2010 - 10:22 AM' timestamp='1268493773' post='2072309'] How do you know if you have an exern vocation? [/quote] ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Hearts Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='13 March 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1268495036' post='2072325'] Wonderful reply two hearts! [/quote] Had to check on some laundry before I finished the post, then returned and hit reply before I saw your wonderful reply! I meant your reply to the extern question, not my post!! Edited March 13, 2010 by Two Hearts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indwelling Trinity Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 [quote name='Saint Therese' date='13 March 2010 - 11:54 AM' timestamp='1268495674' post='2072328'] ? [/quote] I am not a extern.. but i would think one would have the capacity for both silence and intense interaction with others in a gentle and encouraging manner. I think it might be well that one is self disciplined so as to maintain their personal prayer life with out having to be constantly over seen by others. A sense of humor and affability wouldbe great as a way of silent proclamation of the Gospel to those who come to the monastery.Finally I thunk a good sense of self would be important...secure enough so as not to think of themselves as less than the rest of the community but rather see themselves as having a unique contribution to the whole of the community. I guess the best way to find out would be to talk to a prioress or novice Mistress who trains externs and even an extern themself Just an opinion as i have never been one myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChild Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 While I really treasure my silence and solitude, there is a part of me that wondered if I might be called to an extern vocation. When I brought that up to one community's superior, she said that it would be better to consider the extern vocation, and live it, first if it was a remote possibility and then later become cloistered if it turns out that one doesn't have an extern vocation. She said that once you make solemn vows, if you either wonder later, or haven't at least tried the vocation at first and want to try it later, you'd be unable to do so, because upon making solemn vows one cannot leave the enclosure for an extern vocation. So that's how one community explained it to me. I don't know how one would discern if one was called to an extern vocation. If I had to make an intelligent guess I'd say if one was feeling called to the contemplative life, but not necessarily the cloistered life. But one should go into that discernment with the knowledge that depending on how busy the monastery is (ie: phone calls, visitors, etc.) so too would the extern be really busy. When I visited Lufkin Dominicans (don't know if they have their own externs now) they didn't have externs so Mother Superior would assign two sisters each year to take the role of extern. It actually was how I met one of the nuns when I was discerning with them. We became friends from 1992 to just a couple years ago when she lost her battle with Cancer. I was so grateful to have that friendship. Anyway, they were responsible for the 'locals' who came in for Mass or Adoration, the cleaning of the public side of the chapel and monastery (visiting parlors etc.) But they did pray with the sisters in choir and Mass. They only left the enclosure for their 'job'. I know the SLC Carmel has one older extern sister. She lives in an apartment on the grounds, prepares most of her own meals, even has her own dog! She wears the same habit but because of the fund raising festival that the community puts on for the sisters each year, etc., she really does do a lot of work outside the monastery enclsoure. [url="http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_13358898"]Here's an article about her[/url] Each community sees externs (if they have them) in their own way, so I'd think that not only is the vocation to extern life rather unique, a vocation within a vocation, but one also needs to discern how each community views externs to determine if that's one's calling. Because there are some communities that I know I'd feel more called to their cloistered life, and others their extern life. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='13 March 2010 - 11:05 AM' timestamp='1268496350' post='2072334'] I am not a extern.. but i would think one would have the capacity for both silence and intense interaction with others in a gentle and encouraging manner. I think it might be well that one is self disciplined so as to maintain their personal prayer life with out having to be constantly over seen by others. A sense of humor and affability wouldbe great as a way of silent proclamation of the Gospel to those who come to the monastery.Finally I [size="3"][b]thunk [/b][/size]a good sense of self would be important...secure enough so as not to think of themselves as less than the rest of the community but rather see themselves as having a unique contribution to the whole of the community. I guess the best way to find out would be to talk to a prioress or novice Mistress who trains externs and even an extern themself Just an opinion as i have never been one myself. [/quote] +1 For using the word "thunk". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 [quote name='HisChild' date='13 March 2010 - 12:13 PM' timestamp='1268496839' post='2072337'] Each community sees externs (if they have them) in their own way, so I'd think that not only is the vocation to extern life rather unique, a vocation within a vocation, but one also needs to discern how each community views externs to determine if that's one's calling. Because there are some communities that I know I'd feel more called to their cloistered life, and others their extern life. Does that make sense? [/quote] Good reply, HC. I would think it is a "vocation within a vocation", meaning that you should discern the community you feel God is calling you to, and THEN discern whether or not you feel called to the charism of an extern Sister. Each cloistered community is a bit different regarding externs. Perhaps the Vocation Directress will bring this question up herself with you. [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='13 March 2010 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1268496350' post='2072334'] Iam not a extern.. but i would think one would have the capacity forboth silence and intense interaction with others in a gentle andencouraging manner. I think it might be well that one is selfdisciplined so as to maintain their personal prayer life with outhaving to be constantly over seen by others. A sense of humor andaffability wouldbe great as a way of silent proclamation of the Gospelto those who come to the monastery.Finally I thunk a good sense of selfwould be important...secure enough so as not to think of themselves asless than the rest of the community but rather see themselves as havinga unique contribution to the whole of the community. [/quote] GREAT answer! I think it's important that someone discerning an extern vocation should not be confused with someone who truly has an active/contemplative vocation. I know of quite a number of people who had this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChild Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 [quote name='CherieMadame' date='13 March 2010 - 09:59 AM' timestamp='1268499543' post='2072352'] I think it's important that someone discerning an extern vocation should not be confused with someone who truly has an active/contemplative vocation. I know of quite a number of people who had this problem. [/quote] Exactly. For instance, The Sisters of Life call themselves contemplative active vs. the other way around. Mother Agnes told me it was because it was through their prayer that they were able to do any active ministry at all. If their own spiritual wells were dry, how could they be of any service to others? They have a tremendous spiritual life, almost as much as I've seen in some monasteries, but they're also very active. If one is considering a contemplative vocation, it would be good to visit with and discern with not only a purely contemplative community (cloistered or not) as well as those who have an active apostolate balanced with prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DameAgnes Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='13 March 2010 - 11:05 AM' timestamp='1268496350' post='2072334'] I am not a extern.. but i would think one would have the capacity for both silence and intense interaction with others in a gentle and encouraging manner. I think it might be well that one is self disciplined so as to maintain their personal prayer life with out having to be constantly over seen by others. A sense of humor and affability wouldbe great as a way of silent proclamation of the Gospel to those who come to the monastery.Finally I thunk a good sense of self would be important...secure enough so as not to think of themselves as less than the rest of the community but rather see themselves as having a unique contribution to the whole of the community. I guess the best way to find out would be to talk to a prioress or novice Mistress who trains externs and even an extern themself Just an opinion as i have never been one myself. [/quote] I am surprised to read that you are not an extern, sister, being as your post so frequently. I have no problem with that, btw, but it strikes me that we've had some pm'ers in the past getting antsy about cloistered sisters "breaking enclosure" by going on to the internet or posting in forums. Apparently that concern has been assuaged, now. This, I think, is a good thing, as it is very helpful to get the perspective of a cloistered nun. Edited March 13, 2010 by DameAgnes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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