Glenn Beck Called Out By All Christian Denominations

[Maggyie]

Hmmmmm. Well it's quite likely that he was taken out of context. Nevertheless these kinds of things really expose the fault lines in the Church. Social Justice is an integral part of Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular, and while there is no single legitimate expression of it, the truth is the Church's current semi-official interpretation is much closer to a "liberal" POV than a "conservative" one. Pope Benedict, John Paul II, Paul VI etc would most likely qualify as socialists or Marxists if you apply Glenn Beck's criteria. Perhaps this has something to do with them being Europeans and having a more European understanding of how society should function. In America even the Catholics have absorbed our strictly culturally-based values of limited government, rugged individualism etc.

[Maggyie]

In addition, I think the quote from the article, from Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife, "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." says it all.

[Saint Therese]

I really have serious issues with the whole concept of "social justice". First of all, though charity towards the poor is a duty for all Christians, it is secondary. We're supposed to love our brothers and sisters [i]because[/i] we love God.Therefore, our relationship with God comes first-our first duty is to strive for holiness. Although poverty can be a terrible thing, its not the worst thing, which is eternal loss of God. And, though charity towards the poor is great, it doesn't make up for someone not loving God. Mother Teresa often said the cure for poverty is not money, but Love. I think sometimes these important points are confused especially in the more "liberal" sectors of Christianity.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Saint Therese

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='13 March 2010 - 12:55 AM' timestamp='1268459722' post='2072245']
?? he hardly complained about all this when it was happening before Obama got in. His decidedly fake "crocodile tears" he gets make me lol though.
mostly though, he is just blatantly dishonest.
[/quote]

i don't listen to glen beck, but if he never complained about problems in the government under george bush, than I'd have to agree with j_lo's statement...

we need conservative talk show hosts who defend conservatism, not just defend the republican party...

[Saint Therese]

Not true. He was pretty critical of Bush.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='13 March 2010 - 10:32 AM' timestamp='1268494326' post='2072318']
Not true. He was pretty critical of Bush.
[/quote]
well then, I commend him.

[Veridicus]

In some ways I feel the concepts of social justice espoused by the progressive elite is an effort to circumvent the uncertainty inherent to relying on human charity. In this sense, charity is lost in favor of duty to the system. It is a lessening of human dignity and interpersonal exchange even while it succeeds in putting fish in a man's stomach. Putting food in the poor man's stomach is seen as the end of social justice which justifies the jettisoning of human charity in favor of higher taxes, social welfare, and individual dependency on the state and the power-players who run it.

Human liberty cannot exist in a political system where he is [i]dependent [/i]on the government for his life and well being.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Veridicus

[Ephrem Augustine]

everything in opposition to his world view is a conspiracy to "destroy" America.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Ephrem Augustine

[Marie-Therese]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='13 March 2010 - 11:46 AM' timestamp='1268498772' post='2072345']
In some ways I feel the concepts of social justice espoused by the progressive elite is an effort to circumvent the uncertainty inherent to relying on human charity. In this sense, charity is lost in favor of duty to the system. It is a lessening of human dignity and interpersonal exchange even while it succeeds in putting fish in a man's stomach. Putting food in the poor man's stomach is seen as the end of social justice which justifies the jettisoning of human charity in favor of higher taxes, social welfare, and individual dependency on the state and the power-players who run it.

Human liberty cannot exist in a political system where he is [i]dependent [/i]on the government for his life and well being.
[/quote]

This. The liberal agenda is to legislate charity, which is not charity at all. No goodness is formed in the human heart by having one's pockets picked in the name of providing for the poor. Creating a societal construct wherein people are financially dependent on government for their livelihood doesn't help poor people, it helps governments grow stronger and stay in power.


[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' date='13 March 2010 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1268500281' post='2072359']
everything in opposition to his world view is a conspiracy to "destroy" America.
[/quote]

That may be your opinion, but he is right about many things. Conspiracy theories don't sound so crazy anymore when they turn out to be true. A lot of entities conspire to destroy America. Outside groups and governments hate what we stand for. Large groups of Americans hate what we stand for. Underneath it all there are unseen forces who want to destroy everyone. That's not being a conspiracy nut, that's understanding the cold hard truth about human nature and the Adversary.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='13 March 2010 - 10:30 AM' timestamp='1268494228' post='2072317']
i don't listen to glen beck, but if he never complained about problems in the government under george bush, than I'd have to agree with j_lo's statement...

we need conservative talk show hosts who defend conservatism, not just defend the republican party...
[/quote]
He frequently says that the Republicans are just as progressive as the Democrats.

I agree with what he's saying and I'd challenge those who call him a liar to prove it.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='13 March 2010 - 12:31 PM' timestamp='1268501488' post='2072374']
This. The liberal agenda is to legislate charity, which is not charity at all. No goodness is formed in the human heart by having one's pockets picked in the name of providing for the poor. Creating a societal construct wherein people are financially dependent on government for their livelihood doesn't help poor people, it helps governments grow stronger and stay in power.[/quote]
Charity cannot change social structures (and it's not meant to). Poverty as an ingrained social problem cannot be solved by charity. It requires socioeconomic and political solutions.

While I agree with you that the institutionalization of charity is not the answer, neither do I believe that conservativism is capable of addressing our broken society. For example, the conservative answer to prison is being tougher on crime. That's not going to resolve the fact that the American prison system is inherently flawed, not just in practice but in philosophy.

Conservatism has no real vision for letting go of broken social structures and building new ones. Both conservatism and liberalism are attached to existing institutions, they're just attached to different institutions. Liberals are, as you say, greatly attached to institutions that legislate charity, while conservatives are greatly attached to institutions that legislate sin (e.g., prison) and institutions that wield and control power and fear (e.g., the military).

Both liberalism and conservativism are committed to what America has become. They're just committed to different aspects of what it has become. Personally, I find both liberalism and conservatism blind, because neither of them recognizes that we need radical changes in society. Instead, liberalism and conservativism offer more of the same.

[Ephrem Augustine]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='13 March 2010 - 12:31 PM' timestamp='1268501488' post='2072374']
That may be your opinion, but he is right about many things. Conspiracy theories don't sound so crazy anymore when they turn out to be true. A lot of entities conspire to destroy America. Outside groups and governments hate what we stand for. Large groups of Americans hate what we stand for. Underneath it all there are unseen forces who want to destroy everyone. That's not being a conspiracy nut, that's understanding the cold hard truth about human nature and the Adversary.
[/quote]
Don't hate the player hate the game

[Ephrem Augustine]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='13 March 2010 - 12:31 PM' timestamp='1268501488' post='2072374']
That may be your opinion, but he is right about many things. Conspiracy theories don't sound so crazy anymore when they turn out to be true. A lot of entities conspire to destroy America. Outside groups and governments hate what we stand for. Large groups of Americans hate what we stand for. Underneath it all there are unseen forces who want to destroy everyone. That's not being a conspiracy nut, that's understanding the cold hard truth about human nature and the Adversary.
[/quote]

The cold hard truth is, I have seen people who basically worship american materialism. I have known plenty of people from other countries who think that America is a great place. This just sounds a lot like Xenophobia.
Yet I am not saying that there are not groups who want to destroy America like you said... Glenn Beck, and the people I know who like him, are convinced that there are those, "unpatrotic, liberals" who want to "destroy" America. Those were the ones that I was referring to, and not Terrorists or whatever. Instead of there being a political process where people have different opinions on what the right thing is to do, it is thought that there are those who are deliberately, with malintented, trying to ruin the lives of well meaning Americans. Those kind of broad generalizations I have encountered from Glenn Beck and some of the people I know who watch him do not contribute to a healthy political process.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Ephrem Augustine

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Era Might' date='13 March 2010 - 02:25 PM' timestamp='1268504708' post='2072403']
Charity cannot change social structures (and it's not meant to). Poverty as an ingrained social problem cannot be solved by charity. It requires socioeconomic and political solutions.

While I agree with you that the institutionalization of charity is not the answer, neither do I believe that conservativism is capable of addressing our broken society. For example, the conservative answer to prison is being tougher on crime. That's not going to resolve the fact that the American prison system is inherently flawed, not just in execution but in philosophy.

Conservatism has no real vision for letting go of broken social structures and building new ones. Both conservatism and liberalism are attached to existing institutions, they're just attached to different institutions. Liberals are, as you say, greatly attached to institutions that legislate charity, while conservatives are greatly attached to institutions that legislate sin (e.g., prison) and institutions that wield and control power and fear (e.g., the military).

Both liberalism and conservativism are committed to what America has become. They're just committed to different aspects of what it has become. Personally, I find both liberalism and conservatism blind, because neither of them recognizes that we need radical changes in society. Instead, liberalism and conservativism offer more of the same.
[/quote]

+1

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Era Might' date='13 March 2010 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1268504708' post='2072403']
Charity cannot change social structures (and it's not meant to). Poverty as an ingrained social problem cannot be solved by charity. It requires socioeconomic and political solutions.

While I agree with you that the institutionalization of charity is not the answer, neither do I believe that conservativism is capable of addressing our broken society. For example, the conservative answer to prison is being tougher on crime. That's not going to resolve the fact that the American prison system is inherently flawed, not just in practice but in philosophy.

Conservatism has no real vision for letting go of broken social structures and building new ones. Both conservatism and liberalism are attached to existing institutions, they're just attached to different institutions. Liberals are, as you say, greatly attached to institutions that legislate charity, while conservatives are greatly attached to institutions that legislate sin (e.g., prison) and institutions that wield and control power and fear (e.g., the military).

Both liberalism and conservativism are committed to what America has become. They're just committed to different aspects of what it has become. Personally, I find both liberalism and conservatism blind, because neither of them recognizes that we need radical changes in society. Instead, liberalism and conservativism offer more of the same.
[/quote]

Conservativism by its nature is more of the same.

Christ is the only solution.