Help! Advice?

[brightsadness]

[quote name='Shana' date='13 2010 - 04:59 AM' timestamp='1268481549' post='2072281']
My problem isn't earning a masters degree per se. I'm just under the impression that after earning my bachelors I'd have to start working on my masters within two years or my courses in education would expire or something. After I earn my bachelors I want to enter postulancy and if that doesn't work out THEN get my masters and pursue a secular career. I just feel if I pursued my masters right after this my heart wouldn't be in it and the whole time I'd want to be elsewhere (giving religious life a shot).
[/quote]


Hi Shana,

As a fellow artistic type and discerner, I really get your dilemma. And yet we are each so uniqely guided by our God that I hesitate to share. So take it for what it's worth, one person's experience of God using the twists and turns of life to bring her to a turning point that has become an arrow of light and clarity (at least for now.)
Please understand that I'm not a word person [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/ohno.gif[/img] and have mercy[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/upsidedown.gif[/img]. As an artist, and harpist, and most recently, an architect, beauty and creativity have been what my life is about. I am blessed by a family and a church tradition that uses beauty to bring one to the Creator and Savior of us all . And so it was the research into Icons and eastern Church architecture (for my BIA) that our Lord used to call my beauty addicted heart and soul to Him. That and a very clever Priest/Artist that I believe we share acquaintance with.

I did go on for my MA and to work professionally because it was a part of my discernment (I came to a vocational call later than you.) and I have grown and come to see the good things that are not enough for me. This is how I've been guided by my Spiritual Father and others I trust. But that is the past. NOW is God's time for me and nothing would stop me from [u]answering the call. because my heart and soul "know" that voice[/u]. And those who previously counseled waiting and prudence, who love me so much, also see that Now. But as my SF says. I had to be the one to tell them. (Very clever priest.)

You are in my prayers. God bless your discerning heart.

Anya

[organwerke]

[quote name='CherieMadame' date='13 March 2010 - 07:11 PM' timestamp='1268500312' post='2072361']
Love, love, love, love, [b]LOVE[/b] Opus Dei!!!
[/quote]

I'm really happy you say so, I too love it with all my heart!!

[organwerke]

[quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='13 March 2010 - 05:41 PM' timestamp='1268494882' post='2072323']
Organwerke this is simply beautiful and so empathetic yu really understand better than i do ... I love you my friend.
[/quote]

Thank you very much dear Indwelling Trinity, you too know how much I love you!!!!!!
Only...maybe I understand better on the artistical/professional side, but certainly you understand much better for the vocational side, and this is certainly the most important one!
Thank you once more.
God bless you

[Shana]

[quote name='brightsadness' date='13 March 2010 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1268504140' post='2072393']
Hi Shana,

As a fellow artistic type and discerner, I really get your dilemma. And yet we are each so uniqely guided by our God that I hesitate to share. So take it for what it's worth, one person's experience of God using the twists and turns of life to bring her to a turning point that has become an arrow of light and clarity (at least for now.)
Please understand that I'm not a word person [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/ohno.gif[/img] and have mercy[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/upsidedown.gif[/img]. As an artist, and harpist, and most recently, an architect, beauty and creativity have been what my life is about. I am blessed by a family and a church tradition that uses beauty to bring one to the Creator and Savior of us all . And so it was the research into Icons and eastern Church architecture (for my BIA) that our Lord used to call my beauty addicted heart and soul to Him. That and a very clever Priest/Artist that I believe we share acquaintance with.

I did go on for my MA and to work professionally because it was a part of my discernment (I came to a vocational call later than you.) and I have grown and come to see the good things that are not enough for me. This is how I've been guided by my Spiritual Father and others I trust. But that is the past. NOW is God's time for me and nothing would stop me from [u]answering the call. because my heart and soul "know" that voice[/u]. And those who previously counseled waiting and prudence, who love me so much, also see that Now. But as my SF says. I had to be the one to tell them. (Very clever priest.)

You are in my prayers. God bless your discerning heart.

Anya
[/quote]

My problem is that education is my fall back plan but the more and more I get into it I feel stronger and stronger that this isn't for me. At least not K-12. Perhaps being a professor or something but I'm not really feeling it too strong but if that's what God wants he'll give me the desires. I need to discern this more but I'm feeling I want to drop my education minor and take up some Spanish classes. I feel that the reason I started taking education classes was to please and appease other's expectations of me. Just the thing is if I don't have a call to religious life, and I'm thinking it is quite possible that I do, it is not clear to me what secular careers would be satisfying for me. God has given me a lead...TOB, art and evangelization. So I've found a religious order that really has the same spirit as me about that and as far as secular possibilities the only thing I can concieve of is being a professor which you don't really need teacher certification for...you would need a masters in my field.

Please pray for me about what I should do with these education classes, get out while I still can or keep going. I feel I want to get out but I don't know if that's God's will.

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='organwerke' date='13 March 2010 - 07:26 PM' timestamp='1268522766' post='2072532']
Thank you very much dear Indwelling Trinity, you too know how much I love you!!!!!!
Only...maybe I understand better on the artistical/professional side, but certainly you understand much better for the vocational side, and this is certainly the most important one!
Thank you once more.
God bless you
[/quote]

I know this is off topic... but let every spirit praise God with the gifts he has given us. No one gift is greater than the other for they all reflect the attributes of God. For the artist in both of you is very special and close to God's heart.

Like God the artist creates beauty that reflects and conveys to all the creative beauty of God. "God saw what he had done and said it was good"...

How much less richness our own faith would have without the music of the musician who creates beautiful music with which to praise God in union with the angels in heaven who constantly praise Himbefore his heavenly throne.

How much less richness we would have without the painter or sculptor who by their gifts reveal to us in art the beauty of the truths of our faith. The artist carries in a very special way that creative gift of God revealing to us hidden beauty that many of us would not be able to otherwise perceive... Art teaches the Gospel through the senses which then leads us to appeciation of the divine in contemplation through that beauty.

Let none of us underestimate our Gifts whatever they may be. Let us just humbly put them at the service of the Lord. In discernment of vocation we should take into account those God given gifts and weigh whether it is absolutely necessary for us to use them in order to fulfill our vocation or to sometimes to sacrifce them for a greater good. Only the Holy Spirit will make this clear to the soul.

Tenderly,

Indwelling Trinity

[brightsadness]

[quote name='Shana' date='13 March 2010 - 05:05 PM' timestamp='1268525123' post='2072542']
My problem is that education is my fall back plan but the more and more I get into it I feel stronger and stronger that this isn't for me. At least not K-12. Perhaps being a professor or something but I'm not really feeling it too strong but if that's what God wants he'll give me the desires. I need to discern this more but I'm feeling I want to drop my education minor and take up some Spanish classes. I feel that the reason I started taking education classes was to please and appease other's expectations of me. Just the thing is if I don't have a call to religious life, and I'm thinking it is quite possible that I do, it is not clear to me what secular careers would be satisfying for me. God has given me a lead...TOB, art and evangelization. So I've found a religious order that really has the same spirit as me about that and as far as secular possibilities the only thing I can concieve of is being a professor which you don't really need teacher certification for...you would need a masters in my field.

Please pray for me about what I should do with these education classes, get out while I still can or keep going. I feel I want to get out but I don't know if that's God's will.
[/quote]


praying

[Shana]

Ok, so I found I have 5 years, not two after my bachelors degree before I've got to start working on my masters. So now it's a question of if I should finish up my education minor/ certifaction just so I have one more option or drop it all together. So I don't think I'm in as big of a dilemma as I thought. I'm thinking about just finish up my minors in education, it would just take and extra 1/2 a year of student teaching to do that but I'm not quite sure. I'd like to have more options but at the same time I don't really feel like teaching is an appealing option..

[HisChild]

Do you have a spiritual director? What does he/she say?

If teaching really isn't your thing, why continue with it? If you feel the need to finish a degree, shouldn't it be doing what you'd want to do should religious life not work out? I know you mention that you can't really see yourself doing anything and you question your motivation, but just choosing something? Is that the way to go? Not for nothing, but teachers (at least where I live) get paid NO money. And if you already can't see yourself teaching, I think it'll be that much more difficult to finish a degree in education, enter religious life, then leave when(if) it becomes clear that you're not called to religious life, and do something you already said you more than likely wouldn't enjoy. Then of course, there's the debt thing. I've read so many posts lately that I can't remember if it's been addressed or not, but be careful of debt.

~insert Jeopardy theme~

Okay, I've reread some of your posts. I think it would be wise to speak with your vocation directress. Are they teachers? She might tell you to finish your degree. But... well, I know religious life is jumping into the great unknown, but my gut reaction is that you're also putting the cart before the horse. Should you not cross the 'what if it doesn't work out?' bridge when you get to it, instead of setting yourself up for failure? (I know leaving religious life after finding it's not your vocation, or the community isn't for you, isn't failure- I hope you get my drift, though.)

Just my $.05.

[Cherie]

[quote name='HisChild' date='15 March 2010 - 10:20 AM' timestamp='1268662857' post='2073425']
Should you not cross the 'what if it doesn't work out?' bridge when you get to it, instead of setting yourself up for failure?

[/quote]

I agree. I come from the unique perspective of one who's religious vocation DIDN'T "work out." I was sure that God was calling me to join a community after High School - hardly ANYONE (except my spiritual director and a few friends) supported me. My parents wanted me to go to college in case it "didn't work out," so I'd have something to fall back on. My high school teachers wanted me to go to college b/c it would "look good" for our school. For a long time, I was torn. I needed intellectual stimulation but I felt like God was calling me NOW, and I'd heard too many stories of people who had lost their vocations because they waited too long.

It was a hard decision, but I trusted in God and entered two months after my High School graduation. I never regretted that decision. I was in religious life for five years, and maybe part of the reason why I kept pushing for it and stayed much longer than someone who is unsure usually does (even though there were some pretty clear signs that I didn't have a religious vocation) was because I was scared at the prospect of leaving. But part of me was so drawn to the life, and I loved it deeply.

When I left, I had nothing -- all my friends were well on their way with their degrees, working on their masters, and having great jobs and relationships. I had nothing, no college education (the Sisters had formal catechetical classes, but nothing that equaled a degree) and no connections anywhere. It was a very rough first month, but God took care of me, and I kept "trudging along". Not long afterwards, I met my husband and we were later engaged and then married this past November. Now we're expecting our first child ... and I couldn't be happier! God worked everything out -- if I hadn't been in religious life as long as I had, I never would have grown into the woman I am today, with the experiences I went through and everything I learned there, which I am eternally grateful for. I also never would have met my husband, because the timing would have been off.

I guess what I'm saying is that you should NEVER be afraid to 'try' religious life, even if you DON'T have all your "ducks in a row." So many people want to wait for the PERFECT opportunity, or the PERFECT time (I'm not saying you are, I'm just saying I've seen it a lot) and we have to remember, nothing in this world is ever going to be PERFECT. If someone is waiting for the "perfect" time, it's not going to come, and you'd hate for someone to lose an authentic religious vocation for that reason.

I guess I'm also saying that if it ends up NOT working out, don't worry. Sure it can be scary, but God works everything out, and He has a reason for everything. He'll never abandon His children.

[Shana]

I've talked to my parents and debt won't be an issue for me. The reasons why I would consider continuing with education are the following.

I am a fine artist, I like to paint and draw and I'm passionate about that. I don't see myself supporting myself with my art so teaching is the only thing I can concieve of as a way of giving myself some security. I don't want to teach k-12 but I may enjoy being an art professor. I don't believe teaching certification is needed to be a professor but it may be helpful or make me more marketable, idk...

I feel called to evangelize TOB through figurative art and being an art professor is the only secular avenue I can think of that would be good for that. I think I need to talk with my professor or a career councilor or something b/c I feel like I'm getting certified to teach b/c I don't know another fine-arts related job that would give me security.

I just don't know what other secular avenues there are for people in my position. And I feel I'm only say 80 percent sure I would hate teaching and not 100 percent.

I don't know, I just dont' want to make a bad decision and not be employable but I also want to do something I love.

This has just *exploded* recently so I haven't met with my spiritual director yet about this.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='Shana' date='15 March 2010 - 12:30 PM' timestamp='1268667021' post='2073439']
I've talked to my parents and debt won't be an issue for me. The reasons why I would consider continuing with education are the following.

I am a fine artist, I like to paint and draw and I'm passionate about that. I don't see myself supporting myself with my art so teaching is the only thing I can concieve of as a way of giving myself some security. I don't want to teach k-12 but I may enjoy being an art professor. I don't believe teaching certification is needed to be a professor but it may be helpful or make me more marketable, idk...

I feel called to evangelize TOB through figurative art and being an art professor is the only secular avenue I can think of that would be good for that. I think I need to talk with my professor or a career councilor or something b/c I feel like I'm getting certified to teach b/c I don't know another fine-arts related job that would give me security.

I just don't know what other secular avenues there are for people in my position. And I feel I'm only say 80 percent sure I would hate teaching and not 100 percent.

I don't know, I just dont' want to make a bad decision and not be employable but I also want to do something I love.

This has just *exploded* recently so I haven't met with my spiritual director yet about this.
[/quote]

Maybe working at an art gallery or as a museum curator of some sort could be a good (and secure) outlet? If I knew of any art galleries that focused primarily on the TOB, then I'd totally recommend it.

Before discerning my vocation to the religious life, I was planning on getting my Ph.D. in music performance and landing a professorship somewhere while also playing in a symphony. (Big dreams, I know. ) My first love is the orchestra and I figured I could still do that while maintaining financial security as a flute professor (w/music history as a secondary emphasis).

I think nowadays in the fine arts world, it seems you need to be working towards that Ph.D. to teach at university. Most (at least in my experience of the performance field, and in speaking with my former flute professor) go on for their Masters, but having that Ph.D. will often be the deciding factor for professorships. That and talent.

[b]Edit[/b]/P.S. -- I think it's also important to remember that unless you are hired at a Catholic university as a professor, most likely you will [i]not[/i] be able to evangelize TOB in that setting. Not to sound negative at all, but in the hopes of being prudent, I would have to ask myself, "What are the chances of being employed at a Catholic university's fine arts department?" and "If the evangelization of TOB is what I believe God is calling me to without a doubt, will a secular vocation fulfill that calling? If so, how?"

For me, the deciding factor for my vocation hit with this one thought, "If my orchestra/professorship dream came true... would it be [i]enough[/i]?" I desperately [i]wanted[/i] it to be enough -- after all, I knew I had the talent, passion, and determination to make it (honestly not trying to be conceited here, but I was told this multiple times by various flute teachers and performers like Stephen Preston, Gary Shocker, Rhonda Larson, Susan Hoeppner, etc.) -- but in truth, I knew.... it would never be enough.

No matter how much I loved music with every fiber of my being, I knew it would never completely fulfill the ardent desires of my soul -- to belong entirely to Christ, and to bring the world to know and love Him as I do.

Granted, I do miss the orchestra, and yes... sometimes I do have that lingering "What if I pursued that life.." thought. Perhaps that thought will always stay with me -- I do not know -- but what I do know is that if I don't pursue my vocation, I would regret it for the rest of my life.

I trust God will take care of all that I do, even if I get sidetracked along the way. He brings good out of every thing.

Edited March 15, 2010 by laetitia crucis

[Shana]

In studio art a masters degree is the terminal degree. So getting a masters in my field would be the highest I could go.

I think I want to talk to my education professor about this, she's a nice Christian lady.

[Thomist-in-Training]

I know someone who paints who is a Sacred Heart nun She studied art for quite a while after graduating, including in Florence and ended up meeting her order there!

[Shana]

Good news! I met with my education today and we came to a solution that I feel peace with. I could stop taking education classes and drop my education minor and gradate in a year without the additional student teaching. If I were to decide later on that I wanted to get back into getting certified as a teacher, since I've already taken so many education courses, that that wouldn't take to long to get my initial certification through an alternative certification program at boces and then go on to get my masters, ect.

I'm feeling a lot better about this, praise God!

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='Shana' date='18 March 2010 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1268937993' post='2075233']
Good news! I met with my education today and we came to a solution that I feel peace with. I could stop taking education classes and drop my education minor and gradate in a year without the additional student teaching. If I were to decide later on that I wanted to get back into getting certified as a teacher, since I've already taken so many education courses, that that wouldn't take to long to get my initial certification through an alternative certification program at boces and then go on to get my masters, ect.

I'm feeling a lot better about this, praise God!
[/quote]

Praise God for His wonderful goodness for he is faithful forever... now go out and seek him with all your heart for you will never regret this my sister!

I hold you in prayer,

Tenderly,

Indwelling Trinity:bigclap: