DameAgnes Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 http://www.monialesop.org/2010/03/novitiate-field-trip.html Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indwelling Trinity Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 [quote name='DameAgnes' date='11 March 2010 - 03:16 PM' timestamp='1268335007' post='2071090'] [url="http://www.monialesop.org/2010/03/novitiate-field-trip.html"]http://www.monialeso...field-trip.html[/url] Interesting. [/quote] Laughing some field trip... umm it looks like they really do not use those penetential items any more othersie they probably would have known what to call them.... The whip is called a discipline and was usually used during the space of a miserere for the souls in purgatory and in remeberance of Christs passion. Laughing... the whip with points on it is called a cilia and is not a whip at all... it is worn around the waist or arm and depending on the community is worn either all day or for a specified period of time each day Sundays being the exception. The garters.. are a smaller form of a hair shirt. You ties the leather things together si it reaches hald on back and half on front. Some communities still use these penetential methods. I know as a Missionary of Charity we did every day except Sunday and in my first Carmel we used the discipline three times a week during lent and on Fridays during the rest of the year. The hair shirt was optional with the permission of the prioress. The Carthusians also have similar practices and wear the hair shirt.. a larger one all day. Many Carmels have done away with these except for the more conservative ones. The problem is that given our society these things are seen as a form of masochism rather than being used as a penetential devotion of reparation and a reminder os sharing in some small way the sufferings of Christ for the salvation of souls. Are they essential to a penetantial life? I don't think so. I mean you could use the discipline every days but if you use your tongue to shred everyone in sight... well whats the point? I deally these things should be a better help to greater love. if they are just mechanical actions or have lost true meaning then for me they are useless. However i don't eschew them as i have practiced these things for many years as did Mother Teresa and all of the sisters from postulancy onward; and in Carmel from novitiate on. This is not meant to be a pro or con but just a little clarification.... I iread that psychologists are questioning JP II sanctity as he used the discipline daily and they comsider it a menatl abberation.... sighs. If you look to almosy every saint they practiced nearly the same penances and mortifications in their life time. Lauhing I thin i strayed of topic... but just wanted to clarify the pics shown. sorry:topsy: Indwelling Trinity:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laetitia crucis Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 (edited) In my former community, we used the discipline (similar to the one Sr. Mary Martin said, "hurt like a wet noodle" ) once a week (for the space of one decade of the Sorrowful Mysteries) and I believe some of us used the cilia ("penitential chain"). The cilia was not a communal penance, but individual. If one wished to offer penance in such a way, she would first have to have permission from her spiritual director. In another community I visited, those Sisters used the discipline every night except Sundays after Compline. I thought that was just awesome. I know I shouldn't be offended by the novices' look of horror on their faces, but I must admit... I am a [i]tad[/i] taken aback. Temporal exterior penance coupled with interior penances and mortifications... it's totally a good thing -- and a win-win situation, I'd say! *scurries happily back into the medieval era -- with disciplines, cilias, garters, and hairshirts in hand* Edit: editted for grammatical typo. Edited March 11, 2010 by laetitia crucis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osapientia Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='11 March 2010 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1268336222' post='2071104'] Laughing some field trip... umm it looks like they really do not use those penetential items any more othersie they probably would have known what to call them.... The whip is called a discipline and was usually used during the space of a miserere for the souls in purgatory and in remeberance of Christs passion. Laughing... the whip with points on it is called a cilia and is not a whip at all... it is worn around the waist or arm and depending on the community is worn either all day or for a specified period of time each day Sundays being the exception. The garters.. are a smaller form of a hair shirt. You ties the leather things together si it reaches hald on back and half on front. Some communities still use these penetential methods. I know as a Missionary of Charity we did every day except Sunday and in my first Carmel we used the discipline three times a week during lent and on Fridays during the rest of the year. The hair shirt was optional with the permission of the prioress. The Carthusians also have similar practices and wear the hair shirt.. a larger one all day. Many Carmels have done away with these except for the more conservative ones. The problem is that given our society these things are seen as a form of masochism rather than being used as a penetential devotion of reparation and a reminder os sharing in some small way the sufferings of Christ for the salvation of souls. Are they essential to a penetantial life? I don't think so. I mean you could use the discipline every days but if you use your tongue to shred everyone in sight... well whats the point? I deally these things should be a better help to greater love. if they are just mechanical actions or have lost true meaning then for me they are useless. However i don't eschew them as i have practiced these things for many years as did Mother Teresa and all of the sisters from postulancy onward; and in Carmel from novitiate on. This is not meant to be a pro or con but just a little clarification.... I iread that psychologists are questioning JP II sanctity as he used the discipline daily and they comsider it a menatl abberation.... sighs. If you look to almosy every saint they practiced nearly the same penances and mortifications in their life time. Lauhing I thin i strayed of topic... but just wanted to clarify the pics shown. sorry:topsy: Indwelling Trinity:P [/quote] Laughing just a bit....I personally know an ex (operative word here is ex I guess) Carthusian (now a parish priest) who said that because he wore the hairshirt everyday..it was hardly a penance at all..in fact he got so used to it that once he got into the shower with it ON. He personally thought that if were worn only on certain days or at certain times of the year, it would have been more effective as a penance. Still chuckling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indwelling Trinity Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Laughing.... I remeber how horrified the postulants were by the time they became novices laughing they were pratically touting them as some sort of claim to holiness! But It is refreshing to see a few posts where folks are not penance phobes especially here in America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 I don't think penance ever goes out of style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DameAgnes Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 In Re-reading the post it seems to me the sisters were not "mistaken" about what they were looking at; they called the various disciplines, um, "disciplines" and the garters -which are clearly ordinary, soft bulky garters like the kind my grandmother used- are garters. Not disciplines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 I cant wait to see pictures from their field trip to the refectory, oh and after that the laundry room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indwelling Trinity Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 [quote name='vee8' date='11 March 2010 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1268356991' post='2071423'] I cant wait to see pictures from their field trip to the refectory, oh and after that the laundry room. [/quote] You only get to see them if you have valid raffle tickets to win a pair of ancient reliquary knickers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 knickers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnavarro61 Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 i would just like to see how a hairshirt looks like. is it like a sandpaper inside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laetitia crucis Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 [quote name='Indwelling Trinity' date='11 March 2010 - 10:16 PM' timestamp='1268360190' post='2071449'] You only get to see them if you have valid raffle tickets to win a pair of ancient reliquary knickers [/quote] Awww, man. I [i]so[/i] wanted to see those ancient reliquary knickers. I bought raffle tickets for the pantaloons and hoop skirts... [sub]And any other penitential instruments of terror. [/sub] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indwelling Trinity Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 [quote name='laetitia crucis' date='12 March 2010 - 09:42 AM' timestamp='1268401360' post='2071672'] Awww, man. I [i]so[/i] wanted to see those ancient reliquary knickers. I bought raffle tickets for the pantaloons and hoop skirts... [sub]And any other penitential instruments of terror. [/sub] [/quote] Laughing... i guess your luck just ran out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laetitia crucis Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 (edited) [quote name='tnavarro61' date='12 March 2010 - 05:27 AM' timestamp='1268386072' post='2071642'] i would just like to see how a hairshirt looks like. is it like a sandpaper inside? [/quote] I've always wondered what a real hairshirt looks like. So, I googled and found [url="http://www.cilice.co.uk/"]a store[/url] that sells various penitential instruments (I always wondered where one could buy these things from... If you are faint of heart DO NOT click that link.). Here's the hair shirt they sell: [IMG]http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy305/laetitia_crucis/Random/hairshirt.jpg[/IMG] For some reason I guess I thought it would look... [i]hairier[/i]. (Like fluffy angora wool.) Edited March 12, 2010 by laetitia crucis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indwelling Trinity Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 [quote name='laetitia crucis' date='12 March 2010 - 09:56 AM' timestamp='1268402199' post='2071676'] I've always wondered what a real hairshirt looks like. So, I googled and found [url="http://www.cilice.co.uk/"]a store[/url] that sells various penitential instruments (I always wondered where one could buy these things from... If you are faint of heart DO NOT click that link.). Here's the hair shirt they sell: [img]http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy305/laetitia_crucis/Random/hairshirt.jpg[/img] For some reason I guess I thought it would look... [i]hairier[/i]. (Like fluffy angora wool.) [/quote] Wow... laughing I could get rich! I used to make all of these things for my community! But our Hair shirts were made from horse hair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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