Exegesis Of St. James

[Hananiah]

It has become apparent to me that it is of little avail to quote James 2:24 as a prooftext for Catholic teaching on justification. Protestants have all read this passage, and if they have ever engaged a Catholic in debate they have most likely had this passage quoted at them as well. Well, they have not yet converted en masse to Catholicism, so most likely they have convinced themselves that there is some contextual justification for not taking this passage at face value and accepting its plain teaching, namely that man is justified before God by works and not by faith alone. It is my endevour here to disprove this notion.

The train of though of which verse 24 of chapter 2 is a part seems to begin at verse 14 of that chapter. St. James poses a question. "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he has not works? Can the faith [b]save[/b] him?" This question should frame our understanding of the following verses, since it is in response to this question that they are written.

After asking this question, St. James goes on to present the evidence and rational arguments (proof, as he puts it) upon which he will base his conclusion (e.g. even demons believe that God is one, Abraham was justified by works, etc.). Them in verse 24, the conclusion comes. "So you see that man is justified by works and not by faith alone." Here we have an explicit affirmation of Catholic theology on justification. Now, most Protestants will retort that St. James is not speaking about justification in the sense of salvation (a la Rom 5:1, et al.), but rather is speaking about justification before men; a vindication of a salvation already recieved. However, this theory is untenable when we recall the question which this statement answers. The question is "can the faith [b]save[/b] him?" And the answer of course is no, we are justified by works and not by faith alone. So the context of James 2:24 is clearly about salvation, not vindication, and there is no justification for positing that St. James suddenly switched without giving his readers any warning. If the statement "man is justified by works" comes in response to the question "can faith alone save him," clearly St. James is using justification in the salvific sense of the word.

As a final note, shortly after this statement St. James contraditcts faith alone theology once again, albeit this time the contradiction is only implicit. The contradiction is found in the first verse of chapter 3, which reads, "Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you realize that we will be judged more strictly."

According to faith alone theology, we will all be judged by the same standard by God, namely the standard of perfection. Hence, since no one is perfect, we must all be legally accredited with Christ's perfect righteousness or we will never make it past the bar. Yet, here St. James states quite plainly that there are varying degrees of judgment in God's court, for teachers will be held to a higher standard than students. And if one standard is higher than the other, obviously the lower of the two can not be the standard of perfection (the higher is most likely not the standard of perfection either). Hence, there are at least some people who will not be judged by the standard of perfection, and thus would not need to be legally accredited with the perfect righteousness of Christ. The righteousness which inhered in them might be enough. And if there are any who are judged by their inherent righteousness yet still make it to heaven, the whole legal imputation scheme falls.

[Justified Saint]

Excellent post. There is no doubt that any serious discussion of the text of James 2 has to lead to the Catholic position, there is a reason why Luther had problems with Jimmy.

The Protestant has to convince us that James 2:24 means the exact opposite of what it is saying and this simply isn't going to get past the discerning student of the Bible.

[the lumberjack]

faith alone can not sustain or show salvation.

it is faith alone that obtains salvation...how many times do I have to say this?

we DO need works to show our walk of faith....this is what JAMES was saying.

we DO NOT need works to obtain salvation/justificaiton/sanctification...this is ALSO what James was saying.

I can dig up my old posts if you'd like.

[b]works do not require faith[/b]...this is the RCIA, because according to IT, you're NOT EVEN saved until you get baptized, which is NOT what the Bible says.

[b]faith does require works[/b]...and in fact, living a life of faith will produce works.

any iniial works of faith, even getting saved, are acts of faith, coming SOLELY from faith...not so with the RCIA.

One is required to do certain things and somehow prove themselves worthy of baptism...all the while, they are told that they can not merit grace.

amen and amen.

God bless.

[Archangel]

Have you ever taken any RCIA classes, lumberjack?

[Bruce S]

James was a pastor, in charge of a struggling and poor community.

So, good works was a thing he needed, saw, and wanted.

And he is right too.

However, James wasn't the theologian Paul was and was unable to completely free himself from the context of his Jewish backgroud. Paul, was the brain and figured out what Jesus MEANT, not just who He was.

You need both.

But the good works add not to salvation, but should be evident in your life.

Frankly, Paul and James can't be "squared" easily, and I haven't seen anyone really do so. But they certainly are not PART OF your Justification before God in terms of salvation [Protestant thought]

[Bruce S]

[quote]The Church Teaches Ex Cathedra: [Before Newman REDEFINED what Ex Cathedra meant for today, AGAIN]


"The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, and heretics, and schismatics, can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire "which was prepared for the devil, and his angels," (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this Ecclesiastical Body, that only those remaining within this unity can profit from the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, [b]and that they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, almsdeeds, and other works of Christian piety and duties of a Christian soldier. [/b]No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441)[/quote]

Seems Eugene IV was a fan of James, and look how he bundled this all up neatly. Works AND ONLY the Catholic Church are the key to heaven, neat...

Of course, NOW, we will have someone come and say "that isn't the real teaching of the church" etc, etc.

But back THEN, when a Pope issued such a definitive statement, it was Gospel truth, or could everyone back THEN just ingore this?

Edited April 12, 2004 by Bruce S

[yiannii]

[b]The Fathers[/b]


[b]The Shepherd of Hermas Parable 9, 16, 2 (c. 140-155 AD) [/b]

“They had need to come up through the water, so that they might be made alive; for they could not otherwise enter into the Kingdom of God except by putting away the mortality of their former life. These also, then, who had fallen asleep received the seal of the Son of God, and entered into the Kingdom of God. For before a man bears the name of the Son of God, he is dead. But when he receives the seal, he puts mortality aside and again receives life. The seal, therefore, is the water. They go down into the water dead, and come out of it alive.”


[b]St. Justin Martyr, First Apology 61 (c. 155 AD) [/b]

“Then they are led by us to a place where there is water; and there they are reborn in the same kind of rebirth in which we ourselves were reborn: in the name of God, the Lord and Father of all and of our Savior, Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they receive the washing with water. For Christ said, ‘unless you be reborn, you shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven’. The reason for doing this, we have learned from the Apostles.”


[b]St. Theophilus of Antioch, To Autolycus 2, 16 (c. 181 AD) [/b]

“Moreover, those things which were created from the waters were blessed by God, so that this might also be a sign that men would at a future time receive repentance and remission of sins through water and the bath of regeneration––all who proceed to the truth and are born again and receive a blessing from God.”


[b]Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor of Children 1, 6, 26, 1 (ante 202 AD[/b]

“When we are baptized, we are enlightened. Being enlightened, we are adopted as sons. Adopted as sons, we are made perfect. Made perfect, we are become immortal. ‘I say,’ he declares, ‘you are gods and sons of the Most High.’ This work is variously called grace, illumination, perfection, and washing. It is a washing by which we are cleansed of sins; a gift of grace by which the punishments due our sins are remitted.”


[b]Clement of Alexandria, Miscellanies 6, 14, 108, 4 (ante 217 AD) [/b]

[i]“When we hear, ‘Your faith has saved you,’ we do not understand (the Lord) to say simply that they will be saved who have believed in whatever manner, even if works have not followed. To begin with, it was to the Jews alone that He spoke this phrase, who had lived in accord with the law and blamelessly, and who had lacked only faith in the Lord.”[/i]


[b]Origen, Commentaries on St. John 19, 6 (inter 226-232 AD) [/b]

“Whoever dies in his sins, even if he profess to believe in Christ, does not truly believe in Him; and even if that which exists without works be called faith, such faith is dead in itself, as we read in the Epistle bearing the name of James.”


[b]St. Jerome, Commentaries on the Epistle to the Galatians 2, 3, 11 (c. 386 AD) [/b]

“‘But since in the Law no one is justified before God, it is evident that the just man lives by faith’ … It should be noted that he does not say that a man, a person, lives by faith, lest it be thought that he is condemning good works. Rather, he says the just man lives by faith. He implies thereby that whoever would be faithful and would conduct his life according to the faith can in no other way arrive at the faith or live in it except first he be a just man of pure life, coming up to the faith as it were by certain degrees.”

[Hananiah]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 12 2004, 02:15 AM'] it is faith alone that obtains salvation...how many times do I have to say this? [/quote]
Say it however many times you like. You are not going to convince anyone becaue you are in direct contradiction to the Bible.

[quote]we DO need works to show our walk of faith....this is what JAMES was saying.[/quote]
No, he said works justify us. And as I demonstrated, the context indicates that he is talking about justification before God, not men.

[the lumberjack]

then why does Paul, in writing to the Romans, say different?

[quote]21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

[b]24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:[/b]
 
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. [b]By what law? of works? [u]Nay: but by the law of faith.[/b][/u]

28 [b]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.[/b]

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 [b]Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.[/b][/quote]

[willguy]

[quote]However, James wasn't the theologian Paul was and was unable to completely free himself from the context of his Jewish backgroud. Paul, was the brain and figured out what Jesus MEANT, not just who He was.
[/quote]

So suddenly one book of the Bible is better than the other? You sound like Luther; he claimed the Epistle of James was a bunch of straw.

[Justified Saint]

Well, exactly what I thought. The non-Catholics simply have to pull up for air right away everytime they try to get anywhere serious with the text of James. The substance of lumber's and Bruce's post is overriding eisegesis and ideologies and an almost complete dismissal of James.

We are holding their traditions up to scripture and they themselves are proving how unbiblical their belief is.

Well, we tried...

Edited April 12, 2004 by Justified Saint

[Hananiah]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 12 2004, 08:11 AM']
[/quote]
"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."
Justification is a free, unmerited gift in Catholicism too.

"By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
Works of the law does not include all works.

"Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."
Indeed.

[Justified Saint]

Whenever Paul is talking about "works of the law" it is almost always in the context of circumcision. Using such verses then as prooftexts against Catholics show both a fundamental misunderstanding of the context and also one of Catholic soteriology. If we consider [b]context[/b] we can see very easily what Paul is trying to say. Is Paul condemning works? Hardly, he says that it is faith [b]working [/b]through charity and love that counts. Even in the book of Romans this is pretty clear:

[quote]who will repay everyone [b]according to his works[/b]: [b] eternal life [/b]to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality[u][b] through perseverance in good works[/u][/b][/quote]

If I were a Protestant, I simply couldn't ignore verses like this and James 2:24. I have to make an attempt to understand all of scripture and harmonize it. The Catholic position is the only one that can do that.

Edited April 12, 2004 by Justified Saint

[megamattman1]

If you read this verse, one might argue, how could you say we are justified by works?

[quote]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.  For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.  Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.  But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. [/quote]

This isn't even talking abot works of the Jewish law, just works. So it's arguably pretty clear against James. It depends on how you reconcile them. Frankly I don't know how anyone can say they know what the bible means. I think you can make the bible say whatever you want.

There would seem to be another authority such as the Church to say what it means. But I do admit that is a weak argument as Aquanis said... ie to resort to winning an argument via authority is shallow.


I have done much study on this issue. The pope often times has said that there really is no differences in Protestant/Catholic salvation, and people often say this when in the spirit of ecumenism, yet other times the same people will say that we are saved by works. What's the deal?

I think what justification actually is is the issue here. From the fourth chapter of Trent. Justification: "[A] translation from that state in which man is born a child of the first Adam, to the state of grace and of the adoption of the sons of God through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Savior."

If justification is simply justifying God's act through Jesus, then there is no dispute. It's like.. if I buy you a coat and you use it.. you are justifying my buying of the coat. Whether or not this justification is required for eternal salvation is the question that I can't seem to find explicitly taught by the Church. Here is what James Akin has to say on the issue.

[quote]So a Catholic need have no problems with the forensic/declaratory aspects of justification. God does indeed declare us righteous, and that is nothing with which a Catholic needs to quarrel. A Catholic also does not need to quarrel about which kind of righteousness is the cause and which is the effect, whether God declares a person legally righteous and that, by the miraculous creative power of his word, makes the person actually righteous, or whether God makes the person actually righteous and therefore declares the person legally righteous. This is a matter of indifference in Catholic theology.[/quote]

It seems as if the actual method of salvation in this quotes context is left actually unelaborated on. General words are used. Canon 1 does say it is not by works. I realize one may argue works with no grace so if we were to do this I could understand how the debate could linger.

It seems assurance may be the only issue that we have in difference with our Protestant brethern. Catholics can have very great assurance of my justification, but cannot have infallible, no-possibility-of-error, certainty of faith that they are justified. This point is borne out by the fact that many people think they are justified who are in fact not. They think they have fulfilled the conditions on justification, but in reality they have not. This is something that thoughtful Protestants admit, even though it often rubs against the grain of a lot of Protestant rhetoric.

Catholics can be saved right now, and just not realize it.

Again this is the justification definition that I am using. I may be wrong but I'm not sure if there is a difference after all.

Edited April 12, 2004 by megamattman1

[ilovechrist]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 12 2004, 03:15 AM']


[/quote]
all right.. since i don't know how to do the whole *put in quotes wherever you want within the post* yet... i'll do this.

all i'm seeing in here is your contradicting yourself lumberjack. you say here-
[b]faith does require works[/b]...and in fact, living a life of faith will produce works. --we do need faith, but not works... and we also need works, but not faith? in a sense, living a life of faith will produce works, but those are attributed to your faith. you need to use works to [i]increase[/i] your faith.

we DO NOT need works to obtain salvation/justificaiton/sanctification...this is ALSO what James was saying.
we DO need works to show our walk of faith....this is what JAMES was saying.
--tell me where James said these exactly, if you please, i'd like to know where so i can actually provide a response to them.

since i'm merely a beginner at the whole Apologetics thing, i may have some slipups in explaining the logic here... if you older guys could help me out, i'd be most grateful