Why Have Tabernacles Disappeared?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='mortify' date='10 March 2010 - 07:01 PM' timestamp='1268265684' post='2070619']
The irony is that the New Mass rests on the proposition that the Traditional Mass has been corrupted, yet any objective criticism of the New Mass is immediatly frowned upon.
[/quote]
Amen brother. Btw, good choice in books. I've long recommended Klauser's "Short History" as an excellent summary and introduction to the ideology and naive assumptions of the Vatican II era liturgical elite. Anything by Dom Alcuin Reid is, of course, excellent.

Do you have a top ten list for great books on the liturgy?

[Apotheoun]

The articles on the Roman liturgy written by Dr. Lauren Pristas are also well worth reading.

Her Caldwell College webpage: [url="http://faculty.caldwell.edu/lpristas/"]Dr. Lauren Pristas[/url]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='mortify' date='09 March 2010 - 11:29 PM' timestamp='1268195392' post='2070055']
"It is not without some [u][color="#FF0000"]satisifaction[/color][/u] that historians of the liturgy note that the Constitution [color="#FF0000"](=Constitution of the Sacred Liturgy, Second Vatican Council)[/color] does not say a word about any increase in the practice of devotions to the Blessed Sacrament; this in fact receives no mention at all... In this way, the Constitution silently corrects a tendency that has grown increasingly powerful to shift the cetnral point of the liturgy from the eucharistic sacrifice to the eveneration of the Sacrament."[/size][/color]
[/quote]

How can a person separate the Eucharistic Sacrifice from veneration of the Sacrament when Scripture tells us the soldier standing at the Cross, Christ's own altar, proclaimed in veneration, [i]truly this was the Son of God[/i]?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='11 March 2010 - 09:08 AM' timestamp='1268316497' post='2070901']
The articles on the Roman liturgy written by Dr. Lauren Pristas are also well worth reading.

Her Caldwell College webpage: [url="http://faculty.caldwell.edu/lpristas/"]Dr. Lauren Pristas[/url]
[/quote]
Haha, yeah, her articles are def worth reading/studying. I'm kind of interested in book recommendations (hopefully things I have not yet read). Well, I still have some titles in my liturgy collection that I have not yet read so maybe I'm just getting itchy ears.

[Hilde]

I've never seen a church without a tabernacle, but they aren't always in the middle; Sometimes they are on the side.

[KeenanParkerII]

[quote]"In keeping with the Church's traditional practice and the altar's symbolism, the table of a fixed altar is to be of stone and indeed of natural stone. In the dioceses of the United States of America, however, wood which is worthy, solid, and well-crafted may be used, provided that the altar is structurally immobile. The supports or base for upholding the table, however, may be made of any sort of material, provided it is worthy and solid.[/quote]

Ah, it's an American thing. I'm in Canada.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Raphael' date='11 March 2010 - 09:34 AM' timestamp='1268318069' post='2070908']
How can a person separate the Eucharistic Sacrifice from veneration of the Sacrament when Scripture tells us the soldier standing at the Cross, Christ's own altar, proclaimed in veneration, [i]truly this was the Son of God[/i]?
[/quote]
If you guys think Klauser's book is bad, I have a collection of journals (primarily from the 60's and 70's) in which key members of the Consilium discussed their ideas quite freely. One of the more interesting toilet-side journals to scoop up (available in English) would be the at least the liturgical issues of [i]Concilium[/i] from 1965 to about 1975. The journal was founded by folks such as Rahner, Chenu and Kung, but they devoted many issues to the liturgical "reform" and the contributors were often key Consilium members. You are left with little doubt as to the agendas at work in the "reform" of the Mass (among other things). It is pretty much the voice of the progressive 'spirit of vatican II' trend setters and self-proclaimed architects of a new Catholicism.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='11 March 2010 - 07:34 AM' timestamp='1268318072' post='2070909']
Haha, yeah, her articles are def worth reading/studying. I'm kind of interested in book recommendations (hopefully things I have not yet read). Well, I still have some titles in my liturgy collection that I have not yet read so maybe I'm just getting itchy ears.
[/quote]
I believe that Dr. Pristas is working on a book, but until it is published her articles are a good read, and are easily accessible at her faculty webpage.

[Apotheoun]

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Collects-Roman-Missal-Liturgical-Fundamental/dp/0567033848"]Collects of the Roman Missal: A Study in Liturgical Reform[/url] by Dr. Lauren Pristas (UK)

[url="http://www.amazon.com/Collects-Roman-Missal-Liturgical-Fundamental/dp/0567033848/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268321867&sr=8-1"]Collects of the Roman Missal: A Study in Liturgical Reform[/url] by Dr. Lauren Pristas (US)

Edited March 11, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Saint Therese]

Apo I think your pic was awesome. I would love for all Latin rite churches to look like that too. It seems that reverence has been replaced with a banal familiarity.

Pictures like that tempt to me change rites.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Saint Therese

[Apotheoun]

Alcuin Reid makes mention of Dr. Pristas' work in a review he wrote at [url="http://www.amazon.com/review/R3AC51YDVCS2CK"]Amazon.com[/url]:

"The research of the American, Dr Lauren Pristas has not been noted by many. But liturgists world-wide shall soon have to take account of her incisive and painstaking work. For she is preparing a book [i]Collects of the Roman Missal: A Study in Liturgical Reform[/i] in which she examines the ideologically inspired theological evacuation that took place in the reform of the prayers proper to each day in the liturgical year. At Oxford Pristas presented a paper on the reform of the prayers for Lent. In the work of the 1960's reformers she identifies, amongst other things, a distinct aversion to that staple of Lent, fasting, and concludes: 'The revised Lenten collects that neither expect, nor insistently invite, us to fast have done us a distinct disservice.' Such conclusions look behind the (commendable) work of ICEL to give us an accurate translation of the Latin prayers of the new missal and insist that we look again at the quality of the Latin original of the reformed prayers themselves."

[mortify]

It's disturbing to discover what the masterminds behind the "reforms" were thinking.

It makes the idea of resistance justifiable.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='mortify' date='11 March 2010 - 09:20 PM' timestamp='1268360405' post='2071452']
It's disturbing to discover what the masterminds behind the "reforms" were thinking.

It makes the idea of resistance justifiable.
[/quote]


They wanted to put on a good show.

ed

[Veridicus]

I have a church in the city in my diocese that has no tabernacle and never reserves any of the Blessed Sacrament. There are multiple churches where the tabernacle has been removed from the sanctuary and placed in chapels (closets) to "facilitate the Eucharistic Devotion of the laity." In one of these churches the tabernacle is 180degrees on the opposite end of the central aisle from the sanctuary such that if you want to genuflect you have to completely around with your back to the sanctuary before entering your pew....also there are no kneelers and half the pews are oriented at a 90degree angle with the nebulous sanctuary so that you literally have to turn to your right to bring the altar out of your peripheral vision...this Church was almost made our cathedral. In another Church the priest hands his ciborium to an EMHC after distributing communion and then sits in the nave with the laity while a female sacristan cleans the 'glass' Sacred Vessels and clears off the altar. Basically these parishes are run by wacky priests and are liberal so its no surprise at all.

Ick.

And mortify, I found Alcuin's point quite interesting where he distinguishes between the ideas of 'actual participation' and 'active particpiation' in reference to the liturgy.

[Saint Therese]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='12 March 2010 - 01:40 AM' timestamp='1268376006' post='2071620']
I have a church in the city in my diocese that has no tabernacle and never reserves any of the Blessed Sacrament. There are multiple churches where the tabernacle has been removed from the sanctuary and placed in chapels (closets) to "facilitate the Eucharistic Devotion of the laity." In one of these churches the tabernacle is 180degrees on the opposite end of the central aisle from the sanctuary such that if you want to genuflect you have to completely around with your back to the sanctuary before entering your pew....also there are no kneelers and half the pews are oriented at a 90degree angle with the nebulous sanctuary so that you literally have to turn to your right to bring the altar out of your peripheral vision...this Church was almost made our cathedral. In another Church the priest hands his ciborium to an EMHC after distributing communion and then sits in the nave with the laity while a female sacristan cleans the 'glass' Sacred Vessels and clears off the altar. Basically these parishes are run by wacky priests and are liberal so its no surprise at all.
[/quote]



That is so terrible. When I hear things like this I wish I could make up for all the lack of reverence, devotion and love that is not shown to Jesus in the Eucharist.