An Index Of Catholicism's Decline

[mortify]

[quote name='HisChild' date='07 March 2010 - 10:10 AM' timestamp='1267974658' post='2068012']
I find that a very narrow minded approach, because even the Catholic Church acknowledges the holiness and the validity of the Orthodox Church, even if in 'schism' . . . and in all actuality the OC and the RC removed the MUTUAL bulls of excommunication in the 60s.
[/quote]

The only Church that can bear the mark of Holiness is the Roman Church (= the Church with the Bishop of Rome as her visible head.) As for the actions of the priest you knew they were objectively wrong, but perhaps there were mitigating factors that would reduce the culpability to the minimal. Only God knows the heart of men but we really shouldn't presume that those who did what is objectively wrong still end up in the right.

[HisChild]

[quote name='mortify' date='07 March 2010 - 11:24 AM' timestamp='1267986247' post='2068084']
The only Church that can bear the mark of Holiness is the Roman Church (= the Church with the Bishop of Rome as her visible head.) As for the actions of the priest you knew they were objectively wrong, but perhaps there were mitigating factors that would reduce the culpability to the minimal. Only God knows the heart of men but we really shouldn't presume that those who did what is objectively wrong still end up in the right.
[/quote]


I disagree. There are MANY holy men and women throughout the ages in the Orthodox Church. MANY. The Catholic Church does not have the monopoly on holiness. And even SHE declares such.

How in the world can you say in the first part of your sentence that we shouldn't PRESUME to know the mind of God... and then you do?

And on that note, I'm leaving this conversation because I can see that there is little peripheral vision and do not wish to say anything that later I shall regret.

[mortify]

[quote name='HisChild' date='07 March 2010 - 04:59 PM' timestamp='1267999194' post='2068261']
I disagree. There are MANY holy men and women throughout the ages in the Orthodox Church. MANY. The Catholic Church does not have the monopoly on holiness. And even SHE declares such.[/quote]

I was not speaking of individuals but of churches. The Roman Church is the Mystical Body of Christ, and that is why it bears the four marks of being One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. The "Holiness" of the Church is the Holiness of Christ, it has nothing to do with it's members. As for those individuals who are visibly outside of the true Church, it is possible for them to members spiritually, provided their separation is guiltless.

[quote]How in the world can you say in the first part of your sentence that we shouldn't PRESUME to know the mind of God... and then you do?[/quote]

We can't presume to know who is a member spiritually just like we can't presume to know who is saved. We only know what is needed for salvation.

Edited March 7, 2010 by mortify