Communion In The Hand, And The Candidate's Girlfriend?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' date='02 March 2010 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1267560569' post='2065442']
Again, I think it's faulty logic to equate reception in the hand with profanation.
[/quote]
The Churches of both East and West (the West a little later than the East) adopted the practice of reception of communion by mouth for a reason, i.e., to lessen any chance of profanation of the holy mystery, and to insure reverence in the act of reception, and I see no point in changing that universal custom.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, but - thankfully for me - I am in a Church that will never adopt the modern Western practice of communion in the hand, because we receive communion by intinction.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='02 March 2010 - 06:36 PM' timestamp='1267572981' post='2065585']
The Churches of both East and West (the West a little later than the East) adopted the practice of reception of communion by mouth for a reason, i.e., to lessen any chance of profanation of the holy mystery, and to insure reverence in the act of reception, and I see no point in changing that custom.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, but - thankfully for me - I am in a Church that will never adopt the modern Western practice of communion in the hand, because we receive communion by intinction.
[/quote]

Well, as I said before, I have never received on the hand. My posts are not in defense of receiving on the hand, they are in defense of the Church insofar as she is attacked by people who seem to see their points-of-view as more all-encompassing and well-formed than hers. I agree, we can very peacefully agree to disagree on this. Thankfully for both of us, we belong to a beautiful Church that may have outward difference in her various rites, but has the same merciful Spouse. God bless you.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Totus Tuus

[Apotheoun]

I am concerned about this issue only because I believe - as a matter of dogmatic faith - that the whole Christ is present even in the smallest particle of the consecrated elements, and of course small particles of the host do stick to peoples hands even if they are unaware of this fact.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' date='02 March 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1267572825' post='2065584']
my point was that ignorant/evil people will do bad things to the Eucharist because they are ignorant/evil, and that it is illogical to blame that fact on an indult. ...My stance is that that attitude is misguided (and illogical).
[/quote]

I think we are in disagreement on the issue. I do not place the ignorant and evil in the same category as you have. The evil you cannot stop, the ignorant you can instruct. In my opinion the indult, by obfuscating the doctrine expressed by the universal norm of reception on the tongue, has played a legitimate part in the increasingly prevalent ignorance of many Catholics. While Mother Church cannot by her pastoral directives affect in any real way the intent of the evil, Her directives have as their purpose the edification of the people and the inculcation of the doctrines we hold so dear. I do not refer to reception on the hand as prescribed by Cyril of Jerusalem as a "horror" in any way at all...in fact I would applaud such signs of devotion by the lay faithful. However, such a transition from the current generalized dearth of Eucharistic piety would place the entire burden of transformation on the uncatechized and doctrinally confused laity. I posit that the recension of the indult would contribute to an increased Eucharistic piety; although I of course recognize this would only be a part of what it will take to rekindle Eucharistic piety in a huge way.

I realize there is nothing intrinsically disordered about receiving in the hand which is why the Church granted the indult, but as I said in a preceding post, I feel reception on the tongue is a clearer gestural expression of the doctrine of the Real Presence and the timeless character of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

It is apparent that you find the conclusions I have drawn in the preceding few sentences illogical.

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='02 March 2010 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1267573481' post='2065593']
I am concerned about this issue only because I believe - as a matter of dogmatic faith - that the whole Christ is present even in the smallest particle of the consecrated elements, and of course small particles of the host do stick to peoples hands even if they are unaware of this fact.
[/quote]
This is a doctrine of the Catholic Church, although it is not emphasized so eloquently in practice. This is sort of the point I've been trying to make.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Veridicus

[melporcristo]

JMJT

Sooo back to the lady in the vid -
I had a question/pondering thought - why the heck aren't the people around her receiving Holy Communion and WHY aren't THEY making her consume the Precious Host?!?

Also, more on the logistical side, why did the girl give the Precious Host to her BF - why didn't he just receive on his own?

Either way, the vid made me sad fo sho

Edited March 3, 2010 by melporcristo

[melporcristo]

JMJT

Ok - so I got the "official" news on this ...

Catholics in Costa Rica outraged by disrespect toward Eucharist

San Jose, Calif., Feb 12, 2010 / 07:08 pm (CNA).- Catholics in Costa Rica continue to express disgust following the actions of Deborah Formal, the girlfriend of presidential candidate Otto Guevara. Last Sunday, Formal broke off a piece of the Eucharist and placed it in her boyfriend's pocket.

The Costa Rican media has continued to air footage of the Mass which shows Formal receiving Communion, bringing a piece of it back to her seat, and giving it to Guevara.

Being divorced, Guevara did not present himself for Communion.

The video shows that as she approached the archbishop to receive Communion, the two briefly exchanged words. Formal said later she had requested permission from the archbishop to “share the blessing” of Communion with Guevara. She said she misunderstood the archbishop and thought that he had given her permission.

“It was never my intention to disrespect the Catholic Church,” she said.

Formal is seen receiving Communion in the hand, consuming a portion and carrying what was left back to her pew, where she leaned over and put it into Guevara’s shirt pocket.

“I tried to do something that would allow Otto to carry a part of God in his heart,” Formal explained.

After priests were notified of Formal's actions, they asked the presidential candidate to return the consecrated host. He returned it and it was immediately consumed by one of the concelebrating priests.

Numerous Catholics interviewed by the media expressed outrage over the actions of Formal, saying she displayed not only ignorance in describing the consecrated host as a “blessing” instead of as the Real Presence of Christ, but also complete disrespect for Communion and for the Eucharistic Host.

Archbishop Hugo Barrantes of San Jose called her actions “inappropriate and disrespectful,” although not sacrilegious.

----

Please know that many Hispanics who are Catholic know exactly what the Blessed Sacrament is! (Hence why she thought it was "ok" for her to partake in the Blessed Host with her boyfriend. BUT like many have said, people don't understand the reasons to why we must be in the state of grace to receive Jesus, why we consume Him with reverence, etc.

[Luigi]

At the Last Supper, Jesus gave the bread to the apostles - into their hands. If it's good enough for the apostles, it's good enough for me (Give the old time religion, give me that old time religion, give me that old time religion, it's good enough for me!) Say "Amen," somebody!

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Luigi' date='02 March 2010 - 11:05 PM' timestamp='1267592703' post='2065755']
At the Last Supper, Jesus gave the bread to the apostles - into their hands. If it's good enough for the apostles, it's good enough for me (Give the old time religion, give me that old time religion, give me that old time religion, it's good enough for me!) Say "Amen," somebody!
[/quote]

I am also perfectly content with those men who's hands are consecrated as successors of the Apostles taking the Bread of Life into their own hands after the Consecration. After all they share in the Apostolic ministry and they alone can respond authoritatively to Christ's command to repeat the words of Consecration to sacramental effect.

[Luigi]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='03 March 2010 - 12:16 AM' timestamp='1267593410' post='2065761']
I am also perfectly content with those men who's hands are consecrated as successors of the Apostles taking the Bread of Life into their own hands after the Consecration. After all they share in the Apostolic ministry and they alone can respond authoritatively to Christ's command to repeat the words of Consecration to sacramental effect.
[/quote]
Jesus also broke bread with - and gave it into the hands of - the men on the road to Emmaus. One assumes, admittedly wtihout detailed Biblical descriptions - that the broken bread was passed from hand to hand at all of the Eucharists celebrated by the early Church.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Luigi' date='02 March 2010 - 11:32 PM' timestamp='1267594335' post='2065770']
Jesus also broke bread with - and gave it into the hands of - the men on the road to Emmaus. One assumes, admittedly wtihout detailed Biblical descriptions - that the broken bread was passed from hand to hand at all of the Eucharists celebrated by the early Church.
[/quote]

Yes one could assume that the Eucharist was placed in the hands. They may have even put some in their tunic pocket to keep close to their heart until they could eat it later that day or they may have even let pieces fall on the floor to be trampled underfoot. If you would read the preceding pages of this thread you would see my thoughts on the manner of reception on the hand preached by Cyril of Jerusalem. I am with Joseph Ratzinger in recognizing that our Eucharistic anamnesis rises above and beyond the mere recitation of the meal...it draws us into the ever-present sacrifice of Calvary and the celestial liturgy around the throne of the Lamb.

In any case, I would state that as a Catholic I see no reason to prefer the manner of Eucharistic distribution in the early Church over and above the practice in the Church for the prior 1,000yrs.

It is my opinion that antiquarianism often assumes a [i]decay [/i]rather than a [i]development [/i] of doctrine and liturgical practice in the Church.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Veridicus

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Luigi' date='03 March 2010 - 12:05 AM' timestamp='1267592703' post='2065755']
At the Last Supper, Jesus gave the bread to the apostles - into their hands. If it's good enough for the apostles, it's good enough for me (Give the old time religion, give me that old time religion, give me that old time religion, it's good enough for me!) Say "Amen," somebody!
[/quote]

How do you know how the Apostles received holy Communion?

Neither the synoptic accounts of the Last Supper nor the Pauline account found in 1 Corinthians mentions the Apostles receiving Communion in the hand.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='02 March 2010 - 11:54 PM' timestamp='1267595642' post='2065781']
How do you know how the Apostles received holy Communion?

Neither the synoptic accounts of the Last Supper nor the Pauline account found in 1 Corinthians mentions the Apostles receiving Communion in the hand.
[/quote]

He washed their feet. Who says he didn't feed them.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='03 March 2010 - 12:58 AM' timestamp='1267595918' post='2065783']
He washed their feet. Who says he didn't feed them.
[/quote]

If I'm not mistaken, it was not uncommon for the leader of a Jewish ritual meal to place a morsel in the mouths of his guests. I see no reason why Christ could not have placed the most holy Sacrament directly into the Apostles' mouths.

[Resurrexi]

"To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained, one which indicates an active participation in the ministry of the Eucharist." (Pope John Paul II, Dominicae Cenæ, 11)

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='02 March 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1267593410' post='2065761']
I am also perfectly content with those men who's hands are consecrated as successors of the Apostles taking the Bread of Life into their own hands after the Consecration. After all they share in the Apostolic ministry and they alone can respond authoritatively to Christ's command to repeat the words of Consecration to sacramental effect.
[/quote]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='03 March 2010 - 12:18 AM' timestamp='1267597139' post='2065793']
"To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained, one which indicates an active participation in the ministry of the Eucharist." (Pope John Paul II, Dominicae Cenæ, 11)
[/quote]

Edited March 3, 2010 by Veridicus