Communion In The Hand, And The Candidate's Girlfriend?

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Hilde' date='02 March 2010 - 11:07 AM' timestamp='1267549656' post='2065324']
Disrespectful.
[/quote]

The woman in the vid?

[Apotheoun]

An interesting article I found on the web written by Fr. Paul Turner:

[url="http://www.paulturner.org/pdf_files/initiation_sacraments.pdf"]Benedict XVI and the sequence of the sacraments of initiation[/url]

[Seven77]

we should see ourselves as babies being fed... it is an act of humility to receive the Holy Eucharist on the tongue...

[mcts]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='02 March 2010 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1267548704' post='2065314']
Confirmation, or, as we call it, Chrismation, is the giving of the grace of the royal priesthood, which along with the reception of holy communion completes a person's sacramental initiation; thus making the children of Christian parents full and complete Christians from the eighth (or fortieth) day after their birth.
[/quote]

Good to know. Why either the 8th or 40th?

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Seven77' date='02 March 2010 - 01:23 PM' timestamp='1267554186' post='2065367']
we should see ourselves as babies being fed... it is an act of humility to receive the Holy Eucharist on the tongue...
[/quote]

That may be true, but I am still confused by the amount of people here who see themselves as understanding the Eucharist better than Christ's bride, the Church. Does anyone know a husband as well as his wife? That's all I'm saying. I just really don't get it. It's saddening.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' date='02 March 2010 - 12:02 PM' timestamp='1267556575' post='2065409']
That may be true, but I am still confused by the amount of people here who see themselves as understanding the Eucharist better than Christ's bride, the Church. Does anyone know a husband as well as his wife? That's all I'm saying. I just really don't get it. It's saddening.
[/quote]
To say, or to believe, that one form of reception of communion is more reverent than another is not the same thing as saying that one understands the Eucharist better than the Church. So lamenting the fact that the Roman Church has allowed a practice contrary to its own norms (n.b., it should be borne in mind that reception on the tongue remains the normative practice in the Roman Rite, while reception on the hand is permitted by an indult) is not in any way sad or disobedient.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='02 March 2010 - 02:20 PM' timestamp='1267557641' post='2065423']
To say, or to believe, that one form of reception of communion is more reverent than another is not the same thing as saying that one understands the Eucharist better than the Church. So lamenting the fact that the Roman Church has allowed a practice contrary to its own norms (n.b., it should be borne in mind that reception on the tongue remains the normative practice in the Roman Rite, while reception on the hand is permitted by an indult) is not in any way sad or disobedient.
[/quote]

You don't see calling reception in the hand "a horror" as a sad thing? You're entitled to your opinion, but I entirely disagree. It saddens [i]me[/i], personally. I have actually never received communion in the hand my entire life. I prefer receiving on the tongue. But in my [i]opinion[/i], which is what we are sharing here, it is wrong and sad to say that reception in the hand is a horror, and to blame a person's disrespect on a Church teaching (not to mention the lack of logic).

The scrupulosity that comes from paying such close attention to things we don't agree with even though they are approved by the Church, and the condemnation of others that stems from it, leads to two outcomes (in my experience with many friends) 1, you lose sight of your own relationship with the Lord, and 2, you become bitter and proud. It is a matter of trying to remove the splinter from one's neighbor's eye while missing the plank in one's own, the way I see it. I went on a pilgrimage with The Remnant Newspaper one time (without realizing beforehand that they were anti-Vatican II-- and I am not fully equating the Remnant with anyone here), and it was the saddest display of Catholicism I have ever seen. The main (I might say only) topic of discussion among pilgrims and priests present was criticism of Holy Mother Church. And the friends of mine who have become like that all started with things like condemning communion in the hand, or believing it's a mortal sin not to wear a veil (oh yeah, I wear a veil too).

My point here is not to say it's wrong to have a preference. I obviously do myself. My point is that the total lack of humility, of not acknowledging that Holy Mother Church may know more than we do and understand the Eucharist better than our finite intellects do, leads down a slippery path that is sad ([i]sad[/i])to watch. In my opinion.

This is just my experience. I respect your opinion - and maybe we're even on the same page in the end. God bless.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Totus Tuus

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' date='02 March 2010 - 12:43 PM' timestamp='1267558996' post='2065429']
You don't see calling reception in the hand "a horror" as a sad thing? [/quote]
No, I do not find it a sad thing.

[quote name='Totus Tuus' date='02 March 2010 - 12:43 PM' timestamp='1267558996' post='2065429']The scrupulosity that comes from paying such close attention to things we don't agree with even though they are approved by the Church, and the condemnation of others that stems from it, leads to two outcomes (in my experience with many friends) 1, you lose sight of your own relationship with the Lord, and 2, you become bitter and proud. [/quote]
I do not find protecting the Eucharist from profanation by keeping to the established tradition of the Church (i.e., reception on the tongue in the Roman Rite) to be a form of scrupulosity.

Moreover, the present practice of the Roman Church is seen as scandalous by many, and not just Roman Catholics, but by Eastern Catholics, and even by Eastern Orthodox Christians, who often tell me that the Roman Church apparently does not take the Eucharistic presence of Christ seriously. The indult practice of communion on the hand is a scandal that in many ways harms ecumenical dialogue with the ancient Churches of the East.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

Do I believe that receiving communion on the hand is less reverent than receiving communion on the tongue?

Yes, and I believed this before I ever became an Eastern Catholic, which is why - during the time that I was a member of the Roman Church - I went out of my way to receive communion on the tongue.

Do I hope that the indult permitting communion on the hand in the Roman Church will someday be revoked?

Yes, I do.

[let_go_let_God]

I recieve the Eucharist on the hand first. I do equate this with how I was initially taught. I was really never taught that there is an option to recieve it on the tounge and was actually scolded sometimes when I tried to start in high school. After the flu ban is lifted in the spring I plan on trying to start this practice. (To clarify, every winter our Bishop asks those who recieve on the tounge to abstain from this practice to help prevent the spread of the flu. The swine flu accellerated this and this has been in practice since late September. It should be lifted by mid March or by Easter at the latest.)

I find that reverence is always an inclination of the heart. Sometimes as I recieve Jesus I find myself praying, "Hello Jesus" or am struck with the thought of Mary cradling the infant Jesus in her arms.

I touch the Eucharist as little as possible and take the time afterwards to make sure that there are no crumbs in my palm or on my finger tips. Do I feel that I am being irreverent? No, but this is how I continue to show reverence.

God bless-
LGLG

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' date='02 March 2010 - 12:43 PM' timestamp='1267558996' post='2065429']
My point is that the total lack of humility, of not acknowledging that Holy Mother Church may know more than we do and understand the Eucharist better than our finite intellects do, leads down a slippery path that is sad ([i]sad[/i])to watch. In my opinion.[/quote]
It is not an act of hubris to stand up for the time immemorial practice of the Roman Church.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='mcts' date='02 March 2010 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1267556496' post='2065407']
Good to know. Why either the 8th or 40th?
[/quote]
The eighth day would be in commemoration of the feast of the naming (and circumcision) of Christ, while the fortieth day is connected to the Churching of the mother and the child.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' date='02 March 2010 - 02:43 PM' timestamp='1267558996' post='2065429']
My point here is not to say it's wrong to have a preference. I obviously do myself. My point is that the total lack of humility, of not acknowledging that Holy Mother Church may know more than we do and understand the Eucharist better than our finite intellects do, leads down a slippery path that is sad ([i]sad[/i])to watch. In my opinion.
[/quote]


It is not prideful to say that the Church has made imprudent pastoral decisions.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='02 March 2010 - 02:47 PM' timestamp='1267559228' post='2065430']
No, I do not find it a sad thing.


I do not find protecting the Eucharist from profanation by keeping to the established tradition of the Church (i.e., reception on the tongue in the Roman Rite) to be a form of scrupulosity.

Moreover, the present practice of the Roman Church is seen as scandalous by many, and not just Roman Catholics, but by Eastern Catholics, and even by Eastern Orthodox Christians, who often tell me that the Roman Church apparently does not take the Eucharistic presence of Christ seriously. The indult practice of communion on the hand is a scandal that in many ways harms ecumenical dialogue with the ancient Churches of the East.
[/quote]

Again, I think it's faulty logic to equate reception in the hand with profanation. Yes, you could give me innumerable examples of how people who receive in the hand have taken the Host and done something they should not have. The woman in the video, however, had the Host halfway in her mouth -- the same as if she had received on the tongue -- before she took half of it out and did something disrespectful. It is the practice of members of satanic cults to keep the Host in the mouth without swallowing it, and to take it out afterward in order to perform desecration (the horror of the thought!).

We are not on the same page. I see condemning the Church's practice disrespectful. You don't. God bless you though! Pax. I really have no hard feelings, we simply do not agree.

[Seven77]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' date='02 March 2010 - 03:43 PM' timestamp='1267558996' post='2065429']
The scrupulosity that comes from paying such close attention to things we don't agree with even though they are approved by the Church, and the condemnation of others that stems from it, leads to two outcomes (in my experience with many friends) 1, you lose sight of your own relationship with the Lord, and 2, you become bitter and proud. It is a matter of trying to remove the splinter from one's neighbor's eye while missing the plank in one's own, the way I see it. I went on a pilgrimage with The Remnant Newspaper one time (without realizing beforehand that they were anti-Vatican II-- and I am not fully equating the Remnant with anyone here), and it was the saddest display of Catholicism I have ever seen. The main (I might say only) topic of discussion among pilgrims and priests present was criticism of Holy Mother Church. And the friends of mine who have become like that all started with things like condemning communion in the hand, or believing it's a mortal sin not to wear a veil (oh yeah, I wear a veil too).

My point here is not to say it's wrong to have a preference. I obviously do myself. My point is that the total lack of humility, of not acknowledging that Holy Mother Church may know more than we do and understand the Eucharist better than our finite intellects do, leads down a slippery path that is sad ([i]sad[/i])to watch. In my opinion.

[/quote]


While I prefer receiving Holy Communion on the tongue and think that everybody should (for reasons I stated in my previous post), I believe that we shouldn't be calling out everybody who receives on the hand--because Holy Mother Church provides an indult and She knows best.

Totus Tuus, I definitely agree with what you are saying and I'm glad you said it b/c you point out something that has been negatively affecting PM for awhile.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Seven77