Third Secret Of Fatima

[goldenchild17]

[mortify]

Pope John XXIII's opening address to the Second Vatican Council in in October 1962:

[i]In the daily exercise of our pastoral office, we sometimes have to listen, much to our regret, to voices of persons who, though burning with zeal, are not endowed with too much sense of discretion or measure. In these modern times they can see nothing but prevarication and ruin. They say that our era, in comparison with past eras, is getting worse, and they behave as though they had learned nothing from history, which is, none the less, the teacher of life. They behave as though at the time of former Councils everything was a full triumph for the Christian idea and life and for proper religious liberty.
[u]
[b]We feel we must disagree with those prophets of gloom, who are always forecasting disaster, as though the end of the world were at hand.[/b][/u] [/i]


Interesting considering the Third Secret of Fatima was supposed to be revealed in 1960.

Edited March 5, 2010 by mortify

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='04 March 2010 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1267726164' post='2066514']
What specifically leads you to think that there may be more to the story? I'm not up on my private revelations.
[/quote]


Well for the simple fact that Cardinal Ratzinger said alot of the 3rd secret could be found in the Akita messages which he approved of.

[color="#0000FF"][b]Third[/b] and the Last message in [b]Akita[/b] on[b] October 13[/b](Anniversary of Fatima), 1973:[/color]

[color="#FF0000"]". . . if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never have seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by my Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the bishops and the priests."

"The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against other bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord."

"The demon will be especially implacable against the souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of my sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will be no longer pardon for them."

". . . Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary. I alone am able still to save you from the calamities which approach. Those who place their confidence in me will be saved."[/color]

I dont know about you guys but I didnt see alot of this in the 3rd secret posted on the Vatican Website.

[kafka]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='04 March 2010 - 09:55 PM' timestamp='1267757755' post='2066847']
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger knew exactly the opposite. Click on the Vatican link Apoutheon put up.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
I know he has a different interpretation, but I disagree with it. It in my opinion has to refer to the first or second part of the Tribulation when the Pope, some bishops, some priests and some religious are martyred as they are fleeing Rome during a war. It could be a pope during the Arab invasion of the first part of the Tribulation. Or it could be the last pope at the rise and reign of Antichrist during the second part of the Tribulation. I'm not sure.

I have the greatest respect for Pope Benedict, and agree with almost all of his theology but I have spent a lot of time on eschatology and have come to a lot of other conclusions than the current Catholic understanding.

[Saint Therese]

I thought we Catholics didnt' believe in all that?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='05 March 2010 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1267811404' post='2067090']
I thought we Catholics didnt' believe in all that?
[/quote]
Most of it we do. What we don't believe is millenarianism.

Although we don't *necessarily* believe everything Kafka says. Different interpretations, for sure.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Nihil Obstat

[Resurrexi]

Am I the only one who thinks that private revelations are rather boring and of little concern to himself?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='05 March 2010 - 10:59 AM' timestamp='1267811989' post='2067102']
Am I the only one who thinks that private revelations are rather boring and of little concern to himself?
[/quote]
This is one of those rare occasions when you and I are in agreement.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Saint Therese]

Yeah I'm not big on "secrets". Anything that's really important for as Catholics to know was given to everyone, openly, in the deposit of faith.

[Nihil Obstat]

The Rosary and scapular both come through private revelation.


[quote]1 Follow after charity, be zealous for spiritual gifts; but rather that you may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in a tongue, speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man heareth. Yet by the Spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth, speaketh to men unto edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in a tongue, edifieth himself: but he that prophesieth, edifieth the church. 5 And I would have you all to speak with tongues, but rather to prophesy. For greater is he that prophesieth, than he that speaketh with tongues: unless perhaps he interpret, that the church may receive edification.

6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, unless I speak to you either in revelation, or in knowledge, or in prophecy, or in doctrine? 7 Even things without life that give sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction of sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 9 So likewise you, except you utter by the tongue plain speech, how shall it be known what is said? For you shall be speaking into the air. 10 There are, for example, so many kinds of tongues in this world; and none is without voice.

11 If then I know not the power of the voice, I shall be to him to whom I speak a barbarian; and he that speaketh, a barbarian to me. 12 So you also, forasmuch as you are zealous of spirits, seek to abound unto the edifying of the church. 13 And therefore he that speaketh by a tongue, let him pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is without fruit. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, I will pray also with the understanding; I will sing with the spirit, I will sing also with the understanding.

12 "Of spirits"... Of spiritual gifts.

16 Else if thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that holdeth the place of the unlearned say, Amen, to thy blessing? because he knoweth not what thou sayest. 17 For thou indeed givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18 I thank my God I speak with all your tongues. 19 But in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may instruct others also; than ten thousand words in a tongue. 20 Brethren, do not become children in sense: but in malice be children, and in sense be perfect.

16 "Amen"... The unlearned, not knowing that you are then blessing, will not be qualified to join with you by saying Amen to your blessing. The use or abuse of strange tongues, of which the apostle here speaks, does not regard the public liturgy of the church, (in which strange tongues were never used,) but certain conferences of the faithful, ver. 26, etc., in which, meeting together, they discovered to one another their various miraculous gifts of the Spirit, common in those primitive times; amongst which the apostle prefers that of prophesying before that of speaking strange tongues, because it was more to the public edification. Where also not, that the Latin, used in our liturgy, is so far from being a strange or unknown tongue, that it is perhaps the best known tongue in the world.

21 In the law it is written: In other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; and neither so will they hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to believers, but to unbelievers; but prophecies not to unbelievers, but to believers. 23 If therefore the whole church come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in unlearned persons or infidels, will they not say that you are mad? 24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or an unlearned person, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all. 25 The secrets of his heart are made manifest; and so, falling down on his face, he will adore God, affirming that God is among you indeed.

26 How is it then, brethren? When you come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a revelation, hath a tongue, hath an interpretation: let all things be done to edification. 27 If any speak with a tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and in course, and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him hold his peace in the church, and speak to himself and to God. 29 And let the prophets speak, two or three; and let the rest judge. 30 But if any thing be revealed to another sitting, let the first hold his peace.

31 For you may all prophesy one by one; that all may learn, and all may be exhorted: 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the God of dissension, but of peace: as also I teach in all the churches of the saints. 34 Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith. 35 But if they would learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church.

36 Or did the word of God come out from you? Or came it only unto you? 37 If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man know not, he shall not be known. 39 Wherefore, brethren, be zealous to prophesy; and forbid not to speak with tongues. 40 But let all things be done decently, and according to order.[/quote]


If it's good enough for St. Paul, it's good enough for me. With great prudence and obedience to the Church, of course, but that's a given.

[Apotheoun]

The history of the rosary devotion is murky at best, and the most that can be said with any certainty is that it developed over time as a substitute for the praying of the Psalms among the laity. That said, there are many legends that surround this particular Western devotion that attach it to "visions" of, or "instruction" by, the Theotokos, but they are just that . . . legends.

[Apotheoun]

We must remember that even when the Church gives its approbation to a private revelation it is not saying that anything objective necessarily happened; instead, the Church is simply saying that there is nothing contrary to the faith contained in the messages surrounding the supposed event, and that human faith, but not divine faith, [i]may[/i] - "in keeping with the requirements of prudence" - be placed in the message or messages connected to the event. Nevertheless, it does not follow that the act of human faith, or any other type of pious assent, which [i]may[/i] be given to a private revelation, can likewise be given to the various interpretations that eventually become associated with a specific private revelation, because the Church's approval does not extend to them.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Apotheoun

[goldenchild17]

and with that, I think I won't be following this thread anymore. peace people

[kafka]

the scapular and the rosary are both implicit in Sacred Scripture. The vestments and ephod of Aaron is a foreshadowing of the scapular. And for the rosary:

{21:11} Simon Peter climbed up and drew in the net to land: full of large fish, one hundred and fifty-three of them. And although there were so many, the net was not torn.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='kafka' date='05 March 2010 - 02:14 PM' timestamp='1267816492' post='2067149']
the scapular and the rosary are both implicit in Sacred Scripture. The vestments and ephod of Aaron is a foreshadowing of the scapular. And for the rosary:

{21:11} Simon Peter climbed up and drew in the net to land: full of large fish, one hundred and fifty-three of them. And although there were so many, the net was not torn.
[/quote]

You are reading way too far into that.