Are You Scared Of Religious Life?

[LightofMary]

When people discern religious life, and seem to discern forever, are they scared? What are they afraid of?

Edited February 28, 2010 by LightofMary

[KeenanParkerII]

Yes.

Long before I actually began the process to conversion, I realized that my life would either be to marry, to enter religious life, or to be martyred (unlikely, but hey who knows). I have this feeling that if I enter religious life I'll lose the small things.. The coffee and quiet time early in the morning, the prospect of falling in love, going for summer walks at 2 in the morning. And of course, standing up and saying "This is what I give my entire life to!" is a very daunting thing for anyone taking it seriously! It does seem rather selfish though. I had my official "talk" with the priest today, preparing for my baptism, and he told me after reading my little paper that I should either consider becoming a religious priest or marriage. Guess we'll see soon enough..

[OnlySunshine]

I am not currently discerning, but I was before and it was scary. The most frightening thought was that I will not be able to see my family as much as I am now (everyday). I love my family very much and that is really hard to think about leaving them forever. I know that if I eventually discern marriage, I will have to separate from them anyway, but I will be able to see them more often than a few times a year.

The main reason I am not discerning at this time is because of what a vocation director told me. She said since I had depression for about 10 years and I had only been off my meds for a year, it was not enough time to really figure out if I would need them again. So, I am heeding her advice and taking a few years away from discerning religious life.

Edited February 28, 2010 by MaterMisericordiae

[morostheos]

Well, I'm definitely not in the "discerning forever" category, but I'm definitely scared. Some of the things that bring me the most joy in my life I would very rarely if ever be able to do in religious life. I know if it's my calling, God will provide other sources of joy, but it's still scary!

[AccountDeleted]

For me the fear is that I already know what is expected in religious life, and I know what will be hard for me. When I first did it, I was so focused on Jesus that my fears weren't stronger than my desire. But now that I have been out Carmel for six months, and because I had such a traumatic (for me) ending to the last experience, I am afraid to try again. My six months waiting time (assigned by my spiritual director) were up yesterday and I am now meeting with him again, but I have to say that I am not even convinced that I will try again after last time. My SD is writing to my last Prioress to get her input on my vocation in order to help me, and Reverend Mother wrote to me and said she would be happy to communicate with him about me, so things are moving along slowly, but I am still scared even of the idea of religious life again - anywhere.

I am very grateful to have such a holy priest guiding me right now, whatever happens though. And I am also grateful to have phatmass here for all the support I have had over the past three years. This is a beautiful phamily.

[laetitia crucis]

I guess I have to admit that my [b]only[/b] "fear" is somewhat similar to nunsense's. Having lived religious life, and having that experience end in a traumatic way for me as well, I find myself being tempted to wonder and tremble, "What if history repeats itself?" I'm not afraid of failing, but afraid of being deeply hurt the way I was.

I don't think I could survive the same trauma twice. However, I suppose that's where trust comes and the knowledge that God's grace alone suffices. His grace was enough for me to survive my first experience, and I know He called me there for that time period, without a doubt. I also know that this second time around, His grace will again be enough for me. I just have to grow in trust and be faithful to His grace.

The thing is, even the first time around, I definitely did not fit the category of "discerning forever" -- as soon as I found the Order I thought God was calling me to, I jumped in as soon as I could -- perhaps too soon, really. This time period from initial contact to entering was literally two months. Unfortunately, (or perhaps fortunately, depending on how one sees it) if I believe something to be God's will then I act on it immediately.

I think because of that first experience of discernment, I am definitely being more cautious in my discernment now. Even though I'd love to be a professed Sister ASAP, I also know that making vows only [i]13 months[/i] after entering was quite fast, maybe too fast. If I were given that same opportunity again, I think I would request a second year novitiate no matter how much I desire to be espoused to Jesus Christ. That would be a painful sacrifice, but one that would help me in prudence and patience, no doubt.

Hmmm... in regards to the original question about those that seem to discern forever.... well, I think I can see where they're coming from, at least much better now that before I entered religious life and left. Putting myself in that place, I guess I would be afraid of failing. There's so much left "unknown" when you enter, even though one probably enters "for ever", that confirmation isn't sealed until you've professed your Final Vows. What if it doesn't work out? You've already given all your things away, left your career/education, have no income, etc. There's no "worldly" security to back you up when you leave.

So, "discerning forever" might happen because you want that 100% certainty. You're not ready to risk everything for anything less. It's a scary road, but something I find exciting, nonetheless. I've said it already and will say it again, "God's grace is enough." You just have to trust in Him with every fiber of your being, especially if you do come back and try again. And again.

[i]Take, Lord, and receive all my liberty, my memory, my understanding, and my entire will, all that I have and possess. Thou hast given all to me. To Thee, O Lord, I return it. All is Thine, dispose of it wholly according to Thy will. Give me Thy love and Thy grace, for this is sufficient for me.[/i] -- St. Ignatius Loyola

[LightofMary]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='27 February 2010 - 10:37 PM' timestamp='1267328224' post='2064085']
I guess I have to admit that my [b]only[/b] "fear" is somewhat similar to nunsense's. Having lived religious life, and having that experience end in a traumatic way for me as well, I find myself being tempted to wonder and tremble, "What if history repeats itself?" I'm not afraid of failing, but afraid of being deeply hurt the way I was.

I don't think I could survive the same trauma twice. However, I suppose that's where trust comes and the knowledge that God's grace alone suffices. His grace was enough for me to survive my first experience, and I know He called me there for that time period, without a doubt. I also know that this second time around, His grace will again be enough for me. I just have to grow in trust and be faithful to His grace.

The thing is, even the first time around, I definitely did not fit the category of "discerning forever" -- as soon as I found the Order I thought God was calling me to, I jumped in as soon as I could -- perhaps too soon, really. This time period from initial contact to entering was literally two months. Unfortunately, (or perhaps fortunately, depending on how one sees it) if I believe something to be God's will then I act on it immediately.

I think because of that first experience of discernment, I am definitely being more cautious in my discernment now. Even though I'd love to be a professed Sister ASAP, I also know that making vows only [i]13 months[/i] after entering was quite fast, maybe too fast. If I were given that same opportunity again, I think I would request a second year novitiate no matter how much I desire to be espoused to Jesus Christ. That would be a painful sacrifice, but one that would help me in prudence and patience, no doubt.

Hmmm... in regards to the original question about those that seem to discern forever.... well, I think I can see where they're coming from, at least much better now that before I entered religious life and left. Putting myself in that place, I guess I would be afraid of failing. There's so much left "unknown" when you enter, even though one probably enters "for ever", that confirmation isn't sealed until you've professed your Final Vows. What if it doesn't work out? You've already given all your things away, left your career/education, have no income, etc. There's no "worldly" security to back you up when you leave.


So, "discerning forever" might happen because you want that 100% certainty. You're not ready to risk everything for anything less. It's a scary road, but something I find exciting, nonetheless. I've said it already and will say it again, "God's grace is enough." You just have to trust in Him with every fiber of your being, especially if you do come back and try again. And again.


[i]Take, Lord, and receive all my liberty, my memory, my understanding, and my entire will, all that I have and possess. Thou hast given all to me. To Thee, O Lord, I return it. All is Thine, dispose of it wholly according to Thy will. Give me Thy love and Thy grace, for this is sufficient for me.[/i] -- St. Ignatius Loyola
[/quote]

Religious life is a risk because love is a risk. A couple thinks theyare in-love only to find out years later that it could not go on forsome reason or other. No one can predict with certainty that one isgoing to be faithful forever, even after Final Vows. I know of manyfinal vow Sisters who left after being in religious life for years. Love, whether in religious life or married life, is renewed everyday. All the reasons brought up so far are valid and REAL reasons. The reality isthere. Religious life, just like married life, also has a romanticphase. But when the "honeymoon"is over, it all comes down to faith. Yes, it is a risk and an adventure. But life is full of risks but wedon't think twice of taking them everyday. Jesus Christ risked it all when He came. "He came unto His own and His own received Him not." (prologue of St. John). Religious life is the greatest adventure of all.

[HisChild]

I think that varies from person to person. In this disposable society, some are afraid of making a lifetime commitment. Yes, I know one has many years to make those final vows, but in discerning, looking down the road is a must. Can I live here for the rest of my life? Is God calling me to be here for the rest of my life? Can I live in a community where we can't just go out to the movies or get a Frosty at midnight if we want? LOL

I know from experience that many people look harshly at those who enter a community and leave and some of them don't really seek to understand why someone would do such a thing (enter and leave). I know when I did so, I was treated in my parish.... well, one would have thought I entered, made final vows, and then left in scandal, instead of leaving while still a postulant. Their understanding is limited. So some perhaps feel a pressure to make the decision very cautiously.

As an aside, in this day it's REALLY difficult to find a spiritual director. So many are making a decision without a lot of guidance. Some only have places like Phatmass to help make that decision, and while PM is a [u]wonderful[/u] resource and community, sometimes the advice, while well meaning, isn't the best because it's coming from fellow discerners or those who are not spiritual directors. I know of one discerner who had no SD. She was on here, and thought she'd found the place for her as it spoke to her somehow. Finally feeling brave about her potential choice, she posted on here about that community, and got several responses from others that weren't all that positive. This was quite a while ago so I can't recall if others had poor experiences with the community, if their posts were what they'd heard from friends or friends of friends, but it frightened this young woman to the point where she didn't enter and it could very well been where she was called.

For some, the information society has become a detriment as much as it is an aid. I know for me, when I was first discerning, all the brochures were so pretty! Each community sang to my heart. There were very few I was able to weed out right away as 'not for me'. But there were still over a dozen left. Talk about information overload! Then came all the letters and phone calls and visits. I was terrified of making the wrong choice. It had been ingrained in me by fellow discerners (not on here because my major discernment was before I came on PM) and spiritual directors and articles that if one is called to the religious life, they're also called to a particular place- order, congregation, monastery. I sought out signs, afraid I would not choose where our Lord wanted me to be.

He opened doors with the first community I entered, then I realized there were some serious language barriers that I hadn't seen during my visits. I left thinking that I'd chosen wrongly. The second community I entered, I got really sick. For two months. I finally left to recuperate, thinking again I made a 'bad choice' and my illness was a punishment or something. Correct in my thinking? Of course not. Immature? Sure! My spiritual director had died from a car accident and I was left to make a decision on my own. I had no religious living near me to ask for help, to be an example. If they did, they didn't live in my parish and/or didn't wear habits so I couldn't easily identify them.

It took me many moons before I realized that discerning doesn't necessarily involve supernatural signs. And God really does bless our efforts. He won't kick you out of a convent if you choose a place that is somehow not His will. He really blesses our freedom and our love OF doing His will and will be with us every step of the way.

I've met some women that knew right away where they wanted to enter. They either had exposure to an order in their parish or in their schools. A friend is a PT, so as soon as she heard of the Religious Sisters of Mercy of Alma, she knew she didn't need to look any further. Others have more difficulties seeing their way... and some might need a gentle loving push from someone who states that not making a decision is in fact a decision too.

Glory to Jesus Christ,

HC

[laetitia crucis]

Thank you for the above post, HisChild!

I don't know what else to say, except that I found it really helpful, informative, and just a really good post!

P.S. -- And also, for your response of mine, I thank you again! Beautiful and well said!

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='HisChild' date='28 February 2010 - 02:59 PM' timestamp='1267329582' post='2064092']

And God really does bless our efforts. He won't kick you out of a convent if you choose a place that is somehow not His will.

[/quote]


Well, sometimes He does!

I am not really taking exception to what you have written, but this phrase just jumped out at me so I had to reply. One of the hardest things for me has been the feeling that God kicked me out because I was doing something wrong or He didn't want me after all, and it was all my own selfish desire to be a nun (whatever).

It has taken six months for me to let go of even some of this, especially since I thought I was living the life as perfectly as possible on my third attempt at Carmel. When the Prioress sent me away as a postulant of only four months, she couldn't even give me a good reason for doing it, and wrote me a reference and said she would recommend me to other Carmels if I wanted! When I told my SD this, he asked for a copy of the reference and said that he would contact her directly to get her side of the story. He told me that I would never be able to move on until I could let go of this pain inside, and somehow deal with the feelings of rejection.

So, is it God's will that I was asked to leave? Nothing happens that God doesn't allow, but for what reasons, we may never know. It is all about trust, and faith, and like temptation, these things are simply ways for us to grow in strength and love for God. But let's face it, that's why it's easy to get scared. The unknown is scary enough, but the 'known' can be even scarier, especially if the known doesn't make any sense!

I do agree with the need for a good SD though. This is something that is definitely not easy to find, and I spend two months with one who was not good for me when I first got back to Melbourne, and then tried out one priest for two sessions just because he was a Carmelite, but he was hopeless. Finally, God sent me my current SD, and if I didn't have him, I would really be lost in this whole discernment thing right now. So anyone who is discerning who does not have a good SD, should pray, pray, pray to God to send them one!

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='LightofMary' date='27 February 2010 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1267320696' post='2064018']
When people discern religious life, and seem to discern forever, are they scared? What are they afraid of?
[/quote]

Sr. Helena:

I think I can appreciate where you're coming from with such a question ... but sometimes it is not a question of discerning forever. Sometimes it is a question of finding the *where* as well as ongoing growth in one's walk with the Lord.

I have been walking this road for a long time.

The first first first community that I considered entering, I *know* I was scared to even consider them. And in hindsight, I *know* that I would not have been any where near ready or able to enter that particular order.

The first community that I applied with (4 years of discernment) -- I stopped midway in the application process. I felt as though they were unprepared for having a postulant, and one thing would be said, then they would change their minds and say another; etc. It turns out to have been a very wise decision, for I now know that they're too liberal for me.

The second community, with which I was a postulant (another 4 years for a total of 8), it became clear that my calling was to a community that was not as cloistered. The community is semi-cloistered, but leans more towards cloistered than active, and I have always felt that I am called to serve in a more active capacity.

Two years later ... I found the community that seemed to be it. After having to delay my entrance due to a personal tragedy (my mom's passing), I entered in 2008. Without trying to explain the circumstances (it is quite involved and complex) ... I left in Jan 2009. I thoroughly understand Laetitia Crucis' statement of being afraid of being hurt again. I understand His Child's statement where you have to deal with parishioners that don't know what to think about your return, or don't even dare ask what happened.

And nunsense's "well sometime He does (kick you out of a convent)" is a true statement as well. I partially understand what my last experience was ... and partially understand what on my part needs to happen. *But* I have kept going back to the fact that things happened that were not just, or of God. He does allow things to happen, but it is *not* necessarily "His will" but it is part of that mystery of free will that all of us have. And it doesn't just apply to our choices, but the choices that others make affect this.

All I know is that everything works for the good of those who love Him ... so I am assured that all will work out.

You could call me one of those discerners that has been discerning for too many years. All I know is that I will follow Him wherever it may lead, even when it leads to the Cross; which is what I believe I have been living for the last year.

[HisChild]

[quote name='nunsense' date='27 February 2010 - 09:20 PM' timestamp='1267330806' post='2064101']
Well, sometimes He does!

So, is it [b]God's will[/b] that I was asked to leave? Nothing happens that God doesn't [b]allow[/b], but for what reasons, we may never know. It is all about trust, and faith, and like temptation, these things are simply ways for us to grow in strength and love for God. But let's face it, that's why it's easy to get scared. The unknown is scary enough, but the 'known' can be even scarier, especially if the known doesn't make any sense!

[/quote]

I think you're mixing two different things, or that's how it came across to me. Was it [u]God's will[/u] that you be asked to leave? Maybe not. Did HE kick you out? I don't believe that. Did He [u]allow[/u] it to happen? Certainly, as we all have free will, and He will use this experience for your good. Even if you WERE called there, according to His will, He would never take away a human's free will, that of your superior, who chose that you should leave.

I only say this because something similar happened to me with the PCPA. I was only able to fully heal when I removed God from the equation of the pain I was feeling. I had sold everything that I had, my house, my car, my belongings. I didn't even have a bed to sleep in when I returned. When I returned from them I was furious! I even stopped going to church for a time. I felt God had done it to me. It was only when I was able to realize that the Superior (for which I'm grateful NOW) had made her own decision, rightly or wrongly, it didn't directly come from God, and I was finally able to move on.

God grant you many years,

HC

[HisChild]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' date='27 February 2010 - 09:43 PM' timestamp='1267332237' post='2064115']


And nunsense's "well sometime He does (kick you out of a convent)" is a true statement as well. I partially understand what my last experience was ... and partially understand what on my part needs to happen. *But* I have kept going back to the fact that things happened that were not just, or of God. He does allow things to happen, but it is *not* necessarily "His will" but it is part of that mystery of free will that all of us have. And it doesn't just apply to our choices, but the choices that others make affect this.

All I know is that everything works for the good of those who love Him ... so I am assured that all will work out.

You could call me one of those discerners that has been discerning for too many years. All I know is that I will follow Him wherever it may lead, even when it leads to the Cross; which is what I believe I have been living for the last year.
[/quote]

Well I was composing a post, and got called away for a phone call and didn't see your post in the interim. You say much more beautifully what I was trying to convey. Thank you.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='HisChild' date='28 February 2010 - 04:15 PM' timestamp='1267334102' post='2064121']
I think you're mixing two different things, or that's how it came across to me. Was it [u]God's will[/u] that you be asked to leave? Maybe not. Did HE kick you out? I don't believe that. Did He [u]allow[/u] it to happen? Certainly, as we all have free will, and He will use this experience for your good. Even if you WERE called there, according to His will, He would never take away a human's free will, that of your superior, who chose that you should leave.

I only say this because something similar happened to me with the PCPA. I was only able to fully heal when I removed God from the equation of the pain I was feeling. I had sold everything that I had, my house, my car, my belongings. I didn't even have a bed to sleep in when I returned. When I returned from them I was furious! I even stopped going to church for a time. I felt God had done it to me. It was only when I was able to realize that the Superior (for which I'm grateful NOW) had made her own decision, rightly or wrongly, it didn't directly come from God, and I was finally able to move on.

God grant you many years,

HC
[/quote]

Did I sound as if I am angry? No, you are taking me too seriously. I told you that I had no objection to your comment, just that it leapt out at me because of what I have been through. God may or may not have kicked me out for His own reasons. Free will does not preclude being subject to the will of others. And while I fully accept that we all have free will, my superior included, I also strongly believe as St John of the Cross says, that God uses each one of us to shape each other, so I do try to see everything that happened to me as His will in the long run.

As for personal belongings being lost along the way, I haven't owned any of these for three years now, no home, no bed, hardly any clothes, and that doesn't really worry me. It was the feeling of failure and being rejected by God that worried me most, but my SD is helping me deal with those feelings very well.

I have also heard of others who have left their faith after a situation like this, but it actually pulled me closer to Jesus, since He became all that I had left. I was very hurt at what happened and felt rejected, yes, but my initial anger was more directed at religious life in particular, and not understanding what happened, making me wary of trying again because I just didn't know what I had done wrong to warrant such action. And I still don't really, although I try to figure it out all the time so I can change myself. That's why my SD's contact with Mother will be of immense help when he can give me some advice from what he learns.

I will never understand all that God does or why (of course), but if I don't have faith in His ultimate goodness and desire for the welfare of my soul, then I really don't have much of a faith at all, and I couldn't live like that. So, for me, I am a spouse of Jesus whether I ever enter the convent again or not, although I still harbor hopes for such an outcome. It is destiny of the human soul to strive for union with God no matter where we are though, so we just need to keep plodding on.

As for your prayer, please don't ask God to grant me many years, I am ready to leave at a moment's notice if it be His will. Heaven calls, but I do what He wants here first.

[HisChild]

[quote name='nunsense' date='27 February 2010 - 10:33 PM' timestamp='1267335191' post='2064125']

As for your prayer, please don't ask God to grant me many years, I am ready to leave at a moment's notice if it be His will. Heaven calls, but I do what He wants here first.
[/quote]

In the Byzantine Church (Orthodox and Catholic) the traditional goodbye, as I'm finding out very quickly by attending the Eastern Church, is "God grant you many years". Some also say 'God grant you many, many happy years.'

It is as common as one saying "God bless you" after a sneeze. I would still say such to an atheist, even though such a person professes to not believe in God.